Battery Leaks

[Ryland3210]

I think they made a typo...still it may be fine...just put some cardboard or plasticene on top of the battery and see if it gets crushed when you sit on it.

 

From

http://www.portablepower.com/items/search/SLA/1/all/pc545

 

Non-MJ  Click for image of PC545

Dimensions:    6.91" L x 3.28" W x 5.11" H

Weight:  10.8 Pound(s)

 

MJ    Click for image of PC545MJ

Dimensions:    7" L x 3.37" W x 5.17" H

Weight:  12.6 Pound(s)

85231[/snapback]

 

Interesting. Either way, both are thinner than the 3.44 thick Yuasa supplied by the dealer. Thanks for the tip on the cardboard/plasticene test.

 

Luckily, the dealership owner took my umpteenth call and appears ready to take action. I've shipped the battery to him so he can seek recourse from the Yuasa rep. I'm hoping he will ship me the MJ version and let me do the charging. Any ideas on connecting a hose to the tray to drain off any accidental future acid? The hose and making a hole in the tray is the easy part, but finding a way to seal hose to tray so that every drop is drained out could be tricky.

[Ryland3210]

Just about to order one of these batteries, so i will connect it to my optimate for a couple of days before use, thanks for the tip.

Gary

85034[/snapback]

 

Remember that to measure the voltage to determine the percentage of charge, to eliminate the "surface charge" which elevates the voltage for a while just after charging. Usually this dissapates by itself in from 4 to 12 hours due to internal current leakage. Alternatively, you can give a battery a load of 1/3 of its amp-hour capacity for 5 minutes and then wait for 5 to 10 minutes, and then measure its voltage.

 

The voltage corresponding to 100% charge depends on temperature. For each 10 degrees Fahrenheit electrolyte temperature above 80 degrees, subtract 0.024 volts to the manufacturer's specified voltage for the correct reading you should get on the voltmeter. Likewise, if your battery is cooler than 80, add to the mfr's spec voltage to determine the correct voltmeter voltage. For example, suppose the battery is at 100 degrees and the mfr. spec is 12.80 volts. When the battery is fully charged, it should read 12.80 - 2 X 0.024=12.752 volts.

 

Here is an approximate guide to state of charge versus voltage for a mfr. spec of 12.65 volts at 80 degrees and 100% full charge:

12.65 at 100%

12.45 at 75%

12.24 at 50%

12.06 at 25%

11.89 discharged

 

More recommendations: discharged gel cells should be charged over a 20 hour period or more, but never above the mfr's recommended current level, nor above 14.1 volts. This means that standard deep cycle chargers used to recharge wet batteries cannot be used for gel cells. They will shorten battery life or cause thermal runaway.

 

Based on my research, my conclusion is that the type of battery charger for dry cell and sealed batteries is especially important. For example, the voltage should automatically be reduced to 13.2 volts once the battery is fully charged to avoid damaging overcharging. How do you know when this happens? I suppose you have to keep measuring and calculating or have a very intelligent charger.

 

I hope this info. helps you on your way.

[dlaing]

Here is an approximate guide to state of charge versus voltage for a mfr. spec of 12.65 volts at 80 degrees and 100% full charge:

12.65 at 100%

12.45 at  75%

12.24 at  50%

12.06 at 25%

11.89 discharged

85393[/snapback]

From the Hawker guide:

12.84 at 100%

12.50 at 75%

12.18 at 50%

11.88 at 25%

The temperature change is good to know about.

[dlaing]

An alternative to letting the acid drain....get an acid diaper instead

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/battmat.php

Not sure how it holds up to rain.

The rubber OEM tray is pretty shallow.

Some people make boxes for their batteries that will contain more of the acid....

[Ryland3210]

An alternative to letting the acid drain....get an acid diaper instead 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/battmat.php

Not sure how it holds up to rain.

The rubber OEM tray is pretty shallow.

Some people make boxes for their batteries that will contain more of the acid....

85414[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the good suggestion on the pads. I wonder if they are saturated with baking soda-the traditional homespun remedy for neutralizing acid.

 

More good news: The Hawker/Odyssey has the positive and negative terminals reversed from the Yuasa the dealer supplied. The Yuasa terminals ended up on the bottom, closest to the tray, whereas the Odyssey's will be on the top, so even if there is a leak around the terminals (as was reported on this forum earlier due to suspected overtightening), less of the acid would leak out. Now that I've discovered the terminal orientation issue, I'm all the more convinced the dealer simply picked a battery that would fit, and quick charged it

 

So the pads might be quite effective. They look about 1/16" thick: Do you know if that's about right? I want to be sure there is clearance for the battery.

[dlaing]

I don't know how thick it is.

Perhaps your local autoparts store carries it and you could see it in person??

But for only $6.50 plus shipping it is worth a gamble.

Personally, I think the risk of a leak is low and it may not be worth the trouble.

But then again there maybe something about the fit of your seat or whatever that may be increasing the risk.

And if you have a car and it does not fit your bike, you could always use it there...

...just thinking out loud

[Guest redguzziv10]

changing the subject slightly, is there a decent patent alternative battery available to the UK ?

Oem Guzzi batteries are Oooh so expensive!, and i don't trust the wet fill ones.

i had an orange one on my V10 years ago which was ok, but forgotten where i got it from

 

thanks

Ricky

[dlaing]

changing the subject slightly, is there a decent patent alternative battery available to the UK ?

Oem Guzzi batteries are Oooh so expensive!, and i don't trust the wet fill ones.

i had an orange one on my V10 years ago which was ok, but forgotten where i got it from 

 

thanks

Ricky

85604[/snapback]

Your orange battery was probably a Hawker Odyssey

http://www.shop.edirectory.co.uk/knight_ba...+pc545&cid=2267

or

http://www.knightbatteries.com/prodpage.cf...D=11408&next=11

oddly the pc545mj is cheaper than the pc545 at knight batteries

[grossohc]

changing the subject slightly, is there a decent patent alternative battery available to the UK ?

Oem Guzzi batteries are Oooh so expensive!, and i don't trust the wet fill ones.

i had an orange one on my V10 years ago which was ok, but forgotten where i got it from 

 

thanks

Ricky

85604[/snapback]

[grossohc]

changing the subject slightly, is there a decent patent alternative battery available to the UK ?

Oem Guzzi batteries are Oooh so expensive!, and i don't trust the wet fill ones.

i had an orange one on my V10 years ago which was ok, but forgotten where i got it from 

 

thanks

Ricky

85604[/snapback]

oops sorry about the last post, I just ordered a pc545 on saturday fom tayna electrical ( would post a link but me and computers are not compatible)will arrive tomorrow. cost £82.82 delivered, hope its worth it but my battery is on its way out anyway.

Gary

[Guest redguzziv10]

thanks for your suggestions.

Bought one from Bikers Discount Centre, an Ebay Shop Trader.

At £31 it may well be crap... if it is, i'll throw it and get a better one.

[Ryland3210]

I don't know how thick it is.

Perhaps your local autoparts store carries it and you could see it in person??

But for only $6.50 plus shipping it is worth a gamble.

Personally, I think the risk of a leak is low and it may not be worth the trouble.

But then again there maybe something about the fit of your seat or whatever that may be increasing the risk.

And if you have a car and it does not fit your bike, you could always use it there...

...just thinking out loud

85471[/snapback]

 

My dealer finally agreed to replace the battery after I shipped it to him, made two additional calls to argue the point that it should be covered under warrantee. He told me he was trying to get MG to reimburse him. When I said what happens if they don't, he actually complained that he didn't make much money on selling me the bike. He was prepared to make me pay for a battery which leaked the first time I rode the bike! I had to remind him that warrantee coverage is not contingent on the profits made by the dealer.

 

My research indicates the Hawker/Odyssey dry cell types are more reliable and have considerably more cranking capacity. I understand the factory issued a service note recommending defective batteries be replaced with them. In spite of this, he refused to replace it with the Odyssey dry cell type. He insisted on replacing it with another Yuasa. Now, I've had good results with Yuasa's for decades, so I've been thinking his people gave it too fast a charge or overfilled it with acid, or didn't seal it properly. However, I decided to look up the battery on Yuasa's website. Lucky I did, because Yuasa states that the YTX15L BS which came with the bike leaks in tilted applications. Instead they recommend the YTX15L, which is factory prepared and, in North America, must be purchased from Bombardier.

 

I told the dealer about this and faxed him a copy of the Yuasa webpage. They are ordering several of these and I am expected to get one next week.

 

The bottom line is, my number one choice is still the Odyssey PC545 MJ, second choice is the Yuasa YTX15L, factory prepared.

[dlaing]

My research indicates the Hawker/Odyssey dry cell types are more reliable and have considerably more cranking capacity.  I understand the factory issued a service note recommending defective batteries be replaced with them.  In spite of this, he refused to replace it with the Odyssey dry cell type.  He insisted on replacing it with another Yuasa.

86142[/snapback]

"Paul Minnaert

Apr 21 2005, 10:31 PM

in The Guzzi technical notes read this:

 

Subject: new battery

Model: V11

Problem:

short life-span of the presently fitted ESA SPARK 500E battery.

Solution in production:

the YUASA YTZ12S battery will be fitted (comes from Yuasa already filled with fluid).

In production is fitted a new wiring while on bikes with present wiring it is possible to fit the battery and reroute

the cables."

[Ryland3210]

"Paul Minnaert

Apr 21 2005, 10:31 PM

in The Guzzi technical notes read this:

 

Subject: new battery

Model: V11

Problem:

short life-span of the presently fitted ESA SPARK 500E battery.

Solution in production:

the YUASA YTZ12S battery will be fitted (comes from Yuasa already filled with fluid).

In production is fitted a new wiring while on bikes with present wiring it is possible to fit the battery and reroute

the cables."

86165[/snapback]

 

Very interesting. The 12S is smaller than the 15L, except for thickness under the seat, which is the same. Amp hours are less, and the terminal polarity is reversed.

I still favor the 15L with the terminals ending up on top in the right place, and more amp-hours. My guess is that the 12S is cheaper to the dealer than the 15L because it is available from Yuasa instead of through Bombardier, the distributor. It's smaller than the tray, so I hope the hold down straps are tight enough.

 

My dealer also has commented that the batteries that came with the bikes in the past were "s__t", and he has had to replace many of them. I suppose he means the ESA's in the service note.

 

My new battery is supposed to arrive today. I'll let you know what it is. I'm expecting a YTX15L, factory prepared.

[Ryland3210]

"Paul Minnaert

Apr 21 2005, 10:31 PM

in The Guzzi technical notes read this:

 

Subject: new battery

Model: V11

Problem:

short life-span of the presently fitted ESA SPARK 500E battery.

Solution in production:

the YUASA YTZ12S battery will be fitted (comes from Yuasa already filled with fluid).

In production is fitted a new wiring while on bikes with present wiring it is possible to fit the battery and reroute

the cables."

86165[/snapback]

 

I'm happy to report a YTX15L arrived today, as promised by the dealer. He said it comes uncharged, and I should charge it at 6 amps! I reminded him that the recommended charging current is 1.3 amps for 5-10 hours (it's in bold print on the battery label). I'm happy they didn't try to charge it for me at 1/2 the amp-hour capacity of the battery. From everything I've learned during this ordeal, that's a very bad idea, especially for the initial charging of the battery. I would not be surprised if that kind of fast charge caused the first battery to leak, as I told them before. I guess they still haven't learned, in spite of my conversations with them, and written memo's.

 

The voltage as received was 12.0 volts, which means it was about 10% charged at the factory.

 

My plan is to initially charge it at 1/4 amp for two to three days with a limited voltage before installing it. I'll stop when the voltage reaches 12.85, measured after removing the surface charge. The bike's charging system can take it from there, and it should be in fine condition to accept a recharge surge after starting the bike without overheating or excessive pressure.