More LED Turn Signal Woes

[jrt]

Does your bike have a rack?

[slug]

Does your bike have a rack?

87801[/snapback]

 

Nope, not yet...

[jrt]

So- let me state my assumption at the beginning: the turn signal flasher uses a thermistor or some other sort of current sensing switch. Light comes on, heats up a resistor and opens the circuit.

 

 

If that's so, then putting a resistor to ground, in front of the LED, will increase the current draw. You should be able to figure out the resistor pair (one to LED, one to ground) that will give you current and correct voltage to the LED. Does this sound close to right?

[Guest Nogbad]

So- let me state my assumption at the beginning: the turn signal flasher uses a thermistor or some other sort of current sensing switch.  Light comes on, heats up a resistor and opens the circuit. 

If that's so, then putting a resistor to ground, in front of the LED, will increase the current draw.  You should be able to figure out the resistor pair (one to LED, one to ground) that will give you current and correct voltage to the LED.  Does this sound close to right?

87910[/snapback]

 

The old style flashers work like that. Inside there is a resistor element and a bimetallic strip carrying a contact. The resistor heats up and bends the strip breaking the circuit. The strip cools, makes contact again and it starts over.

 

Slug however has an electronic flasher which probably uses a transistor timing circuit and a relay, either mechanical or solid state.

[jrt]

Slug however has an electronic flasher which probably uses a transistor timing circuit and a relay, either mechanical or solid state.

 

 

Oh, I guess that makes sense.

Well, Slug, I guess the only thing you can do is rewire your bike for retro flashers. Sorry dude.

[slug]

Oh, I guess that makes sense.

Well, Slug, I guess the only thing you can do is rewire your bike for retro flashers.  Sorry dude.

87965[/snapback]

 

Nope, solved it last night, finally. Here's a quick wrap-up for anyone who's interested:

 

1. The electronic flasher unit I bought does not require that additional resistors be installed for each LED signal.

 

2. The indicator lamp circuit on the instrument pod on my bike ('02 - '03 V11 Sport) is (in my opinion) very poorly designed. The ground path for indicator bulb is routed through the turn signal circuit opposite the turn signal that is on (so if the left turn signal is being used, the ground for the indicator lamp is routed through the entire right turn signal circuit). This causes all four signals to light up at the same time. The left and right circuits need diodes installed to prevent current from passing "backwards", then joined to form the indicator's positive input, and a new ground must be installed. I connected the indicator's ground to the ground wire for the tach backlight.

 

3. I replaced the dash indicator bulb with an LED. I found that even with the turn signals off, the circuit is still charged with approx. 4 volts (no idea why...). This caused the new LED to stay on. To fix this I installed a 5v zener diode to act a voltage sensitive switch.

 

Here's the final circuit for the indicator:

[Bruce Reader]

Ok ! I can follow the solutions on this thread but could someone answer this (and maybe a quick explanation what is happening in the circuit pre and post wiring changes). Note electronic ignoramus

 

Using led flasher unit,

 

(1)

 

2 x led at rear and 2 x standard 5w bulbs in front- Normal flash rate front and rear

 

2 x standard at rear and 2 led up front - nothing- is this a different arrangement to Slug's original problem when he had all lights on ?

 

 

(2)

 

Somewhere in the threads on this problem someone metioned standard bulbs as 21w. Mine are 5w original-Discovered this after buying smoked lenses for a buell with their amber 21w standard bulbs- worked for a while untill i melted one of the front indicator wires and fused a wire inside the original flasher- Hence now a dedicated led flasher unit which is supposed to run leds and anything up to 30w with no change to signal flash rate.

 

(3)

Do i have different spec wiring on my Aussie deliverd bike ? both in regard to the 5w bulbs and the different symptoms to slug when attempting leds without diodes and or resistors ?

 

Or did Slug get all lights on with no diodes and added resistors in series ?

 

Cheers for your time guys

 

Bruce

[Guest Nogbad]

To be honest I never heard of 5W indicator bulbs on any bike. Even my 6V MZ had 21W indicators and I wouldn't imagine in the bright heat of the Aussie outback a feeble 5W would be visible even.

 

So, has a previous owner been marmalising your wiring? I can't comment on why you get different results with the LEDs and incadescents swapped from front to rear as its a parallel circuit and the resistance of the wiring is small relative to the resistance of the bulb.

 

The indicator bulbs should be 21W, whatever is in there now, and I don't understand the 5W bulbs and very thin feed wire you report. A 21W bulb is only 1.75A at 12V so the feed wire would have to be very thin indeed to heat up. Mysterious!

[slug]

Ok ! I can follow the solutions on this thread but could someone answer this (and maybe a quick explanation what is happening in the circuit pre and post wiring changes). Note electronic ignoramus

 

Using led flasher unit,

 

(1)

 

2 x led at rear and 2 x standard 5w bulbs in front- Normal flash rate front and rear

 

2 x standard at rear and 2 led up front - nothing- is this a different arrangement to Slug's original problem when he had all lights on ?

 

 

(2)

 

Somewhere in the threads on this problem someone metioned standard bulbs as 21w. Mine are 5w original-Discovered this after buying smoked lenses for a buell with their amber 21w standard bulbs- worked for a while untill i melted one of the front indicator wires and fused a wire inside the original flasher- Hence now a dedicated led flasher unit which is supposed to run leds and anything up to 30w with no change to signal flash rate.

 

(3)

Do i have different spec wiring on my Aussie deliverd bike ? both in regard to the 5w bulbs and the different symptoms to slug when attempting leds without diodes and or resistors ?

 

Or did Slug get all lights on with no diodes and added resistors in series ?

 

Cheers for your time guys

 

Bruce

 

Hi Bruce,

 

I had to use diodes as in the diagram I posted. The resistor in the diagram is for the LED that I used to replace the incandescent bulb, so don't let it distract you. I didn't need resistors on each signal because I replaced the stock flasher unit with an electronic one.

 

What year is your V11? Does your instrument cluster have a single turn indicator lamp or dedicated left and right indicator lamps?

 

- Slug

[Bruce Reader]

G'day- Lucky i live in the City

 

Sorry 10watt bulbs all round. Osram Italy on them.

 

 

My bike is 2002 Scura. Single green indicator lamp.

 

Perhaps i had a rubbing mechanical short on the front indicator wires which also fused the flasher. Coincidentally with the 21 watt amber bulbs.

 

Nogbad mentioned removing the indicator warning lamp as a fix to the circuit. Should this work with led flasher unit and leds alround ? I tried this with 10 watt incandescents on the rear and leds on the front- only the rears work

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[dlaing]

G'day- Lucky i live in the City

 

Sorry 10watt bulbs all round. Osram Italy on them.

 

 

My bike is 2002 Scura. Single green indicator lamp.

 

Perhaps i had a rubbing mechanical short on the front indicator wires which also fused the flasher. Coincidentally with the 21 watt amber bulbs.

 

Nogbad mentioned removing the indicator warning lamp as a fix to the circuit. Should this work with led flasher unit and leds alround ? I tried this with 10 watt incandescents on the rear and leds on the front- only the rears work

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

That should work, unless the wiring diagram is wrong.

Did you get the polarity wired correctly at the front?

[Guest Nogbad]

With an electronic flasher, you should get correct operation both sides with all LED or a mix of LED / incandescent if the idiot light is REMOVED. Obviously you want an idiot light, so you will need to rewire the bulb one side to earth with a pair of blocking diodes. As mentioned before, if you decide to replace the incandescent idiot light with another LED, you may need either a zener or a pull down resistor as some solid state electronic flashers leak enough current to light a single small LED. I recommend keeping the standard idiot light, wiring one side to earth and the other side to each indicator circuit via IN4001 or similar diodes.

[Skeeve]

With an electronic flasher, you should get correct operation both sides with all LED or a mix of LED / incandescent if the idiot light is REMOVED. Obviously you want an idiot light, so you will need to rewire the bulb one side to earth with a pair of blocking diodes. As mentioned before, if you decide to replace the incandescent idiot light with another LED, you may need either a zener or a pull down resistor as some solid state electronic flashers leak enough current to light a single small LED. I recommend keeping the standard idiot light, wiring one side to earth and the other side to each indicator circuit via IN4001 or similar diodes.

 

Care to repeat that in English? Use small words, please, as I don't have much experience w/ routing the magic smoke...

 

Seriously, we need to work up a "How to:" section so that people who've done it [whatever project "it" is, in any particular case] can post their pix & specifics so that the just barely competent among us [who you looking at? Oh, right... ] have an "idiot's guide" to making the upgrade themselves...

[Guest Nogbad]

Care to repeat that in English? Use small words, please, as I don't have much experience w/ routing the magic smoke...

 

Seriously, we need to work up a "How to:" section so that people who've done it [whatever project "it" is, in any particular case] can post their pix & specifics so that the just barely competent among us [who you looking at? Oh, right... ] have an "idiot's guide" to making the upgrade themselves...

 

Sorry. If you look back at the beginning of this thread, there are some better explanations and a drawing or 2

[slug]

My bike is 2002 Scura. Single green indicator lamp.

 

Perhaps i had a rubbing mechanical short on the front indicator wires which also fused the flasher. Coincidentally with the 21 watt amber bulbs.

 

Nogbad mentioned removing the indicator warning lamp as a fix to the circuit. Should this work with led flasher unit and leds alround ? I tried this with 10 watt incandescents on the rear and leds on the front- only the rears work

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

 

Since your bike is an '02 with the single indicator, I'm pretty sure that your situation is exactly like mine was. Here was my solution from one of my earlier posts:

 

The indicator lamp circuit on the instrument pod on my bike ('02 - '03 V11 Sport) is (in my opinion) very poorly designed. The ground path for indicator bulb is routed through the turn signal circuit opposite the turn signal that is on (so if the left turn signal is being used, the ground for the indicator lamp is routed through the entire right turn signal circuit). This causes all four signals to light up at the same time. The left and right circuits need diodes installed to prevent current from passing "backwards", then joined to form the indicator's positive input, and a new ground must be installed. I spliced the indicator's ground with the ground wire for the tach backlight.

 

I have enough parts (regular and zener diodes) to solder up a fix for you. The fix will separate the left and right front signal circuits, and address any current leakage from your flasher. PM me if you're interested.