V11 family future

[Janusz]

Now as all V11s are no more in production how would this fact affect:

 

Their desireability,

Value,

Cool factor, etc?

 

I think that only in a positive way over time. For me V11 family as general and 2000/2001 model (short frame V11S) in particular is the most satisfying Guzzi ever.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Also, the new Ducati retro styled bikes look very nice but I hear that ergonomics are horrible. They directly compare with V11s in my mind but of course Guzzis look, feel and probaly ride better.

Why then everybody and his brother are so in love with Ducatis but our Geese did not raise such an approval in so called general public?

 

Is it all in the brand recognition only or are Guzzi's missing something compared to new Ducati retro?

[Guest Nogbad]

Nope.

 

I looked long and hard at a Duc, and tried a Sport 1000. In the end I opted for a Buell as my second bike. The V11 is a lot nicer than a Duc. retro and should be more reliable and cheaper to run.

 

Ok the Paul Smart would make a great lounge ornament, but the riding position is so God awful you would never use it much.

[Baldini]

....For me V11 family as general and 2000/2001 model (short frame V11S) in particular is the most satisfying Guzzi ever....

 

Speaking from experience of which other Guzzis?

 

I never rode anything earlier than the Tontis - but (especially for their time) they have an integrated, solid quality the V11 lacks. I suspect the new box/rear drive when coupled with a more wholesome motor will also be a cut above the V11. I love my Scura but I still say the V11 is a bit alf-arsed in it's design. To me someone thought thru the Tontis & meant it...with the V11 it was like "what can we cobble together with these bits we got that'll look nice but not cost us too much". The fact they completely redesigned the 6 speed box for the new bikes, to me speaks volumes.

 

KB

[Janusz]

Speaking from experience of which other Guzzis?

 

I never rode anything earlier than the Tontis - but esp for their time they have an integrated, solid quality the V11 lacks.

 

Yes, I rode quite a few old Guzzis and yes, they, especially loop frames, do have this "solid quality" the same as any old heavy bike has including my new cruiser Yamaha. But for me they look uninspiring and "not Italian" if you get what I mean. It is just my own opinion but no other Guzzi stirs my soul so much as V11S, thats all.

 

Anyways, the question which I cannot answer in my mind remains a mystery: Why retro Ducatis met with an overwhelming public approval and Guzzi, being a better and more interesting bike objectively, failed to do that so miserably?

[Admin Jaap]

Marketing...

[Steve G.]

Now as all V11s are no more in production how would this fact affect:

 

Their desireability,

Value,

Cool factor, etc?

 

I think that only in a positive way over time. For me V11 family as general and 2000/2001 model (short frame V11S) in particular is the most satisfying Guzzi ever.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Also, the new Ducati retro styled bikes look very nice but I hear that ergonomics are horrible. They directly compare with V11s in my mind but of course Guzzis look, feel and probaly ride better.

Why then everybody and his brother are so in love with Ducatis but our Geese did not raise such an approval in so called general public?

 

Is it all in the brand recognition only or are Guzzi's missing something compared to new Ducati retro?

87709[/snapback]

As for collectibilty, I'd have to say that they probably made too many V11 based bikes, and that supply and demand will drive the market value for these bikes in the future. The original green V11's will do better, as most first year/first model bikes will, the limited production models like Tenni and Rosso [although their numbers are not much less than the other models] and the Lemans bikes with the high end suspension components. Don't want to say alot about some of the others.

Ciao, Steve G.

[Guest roadholder]

I think that the V11 is a bike that every biker should have in the garage. Maybe not the only one, but the most representative of some features like:

coolness and "italian style"

pleasure to ride as "every day bike"

and, most of all, it is a Guzzi and there is not other bike featuring an engine like that (let's start making some marketing Jaap)

 

This consideration is for 2006, and I'm talking like a biker.

About 2020 (20 years for a production italian bike to became historically interesting and desiderable) I'm not so interested at now. Buy a Daytona for this purpose :-)

I'm into classic bikes since I was 20, and I love to collect and restore them and I think I know that "world". Now, in 2006, I think to "classics" when I look at bikes with drum brakes. When I'm in the mood I use my Triton, on my Tonti. But for every day cruising and for my streetfighting the V11 is the bike.

 

About so called "value" of a classic bike, I have to say that I buy and sell bikes often. Especially in past years was easy here in Italy. So I used to buy and sell them. I have to say that in a few cases I generated what can be called an "income".

Bikes are made to let you spend money, not for other purposes :-)

The value of your bike is the one you give to it. So for all of us here is a great value.

 

Retro Duc are desiderable now for a coule of reasons: a great look and a magnificent marketing action. I wont tell I dont like Ducati's. I owned some in the past (last in 2002). I love the Ducati's look. They are nice to ride in some specific occasions. But they are not Guzzi! They miss somethink.

 

Sorry for this long post in a bad english. :-)

[Janusz]

Sorry for this long post in a bad english. :-)

87730[/snapback]

 

I appreciate your answer which sounds very true for me and exactly what I would hope to expect, also from the horse's mouth, sort of thing. Thank you.

 

I will never want to get rid of this bike, thats for sure.

[Frenchbob]

I agree substantially with Roadholder and Jaap. I would add that my V11, more or less in standard trim, is the nearest bike I have owned [including my 750S3] to replicating the sheer, intoxicating pleasure I used to get from my modified, bevel-drive Ducati. What I don't get from the V11 is the fear of mechanical Armageddon, the plank-like ride and the unforgiving handling if you get it wrong in a corner.

 

I, too, tried a few modern bikes before I got the V11, and I owned a Hinckley Triumph for ten years: It was undoubtedly quicker, but I reckon I've got the best blend of character, practicality, style and value-for-money in the Guzzi. I would love a modern Ducati if I could afford one too for occasional, high-speed, committed riding, but I couldn't replace the V11 with one.

[pete roper]

I think my feelings are probably closest to Keiths. The reason I don't own a V11 variant is not because they aren't a great bike, I think they are, but because to me at least they never felt like either a huge leap forward that was needed to part me from my wonga and also the whole package seemed to me bo be a series of hastily constructed compromises and half arsed solutions to problems. I mean the bike was launched in '99? but it still had a cantilever rear end? Where was the rising rate linkage? For a supposedly *modern* bike this was really pretty poor IMHO.

 

As to the earlier bikes? Well, I think that the early Tonti's are probably closest in my mind to the 'Essence of motorbike' that I crave in machines I own. Even in the 21st century they still punch way above their weight. The Loopframes too have a 'finished' feel that oozes both charisma and a level of well thought out, quality engineering that I find lacking in most 'Consumer Durables' today. I think that that is in itself part of the problem. Nothing these days is built to last. When the Loops and the early Tonti's were designed and built is was still expected by the designers that the product they were designing was going to have a very long life and was expected to be both robust and easily repairable. Unfortunately times have changed and we now live in a world where most people think it reasonable to spend $20,000 on something like a motorbike and that it will, within a very few years, either be worn out, or spare parts will be unavailable, or very simply it will be discarded in favor of another *new* product.

 

I'm very aware that few people ride bikes as transport nowadays and they are a *toy* so the mileages covered are going to be much smaller than those of yore. It also seems to be comparatively unimportant to many how complex or simple a machine is, even though many of the same people piss and moan about high servicing costs on complex, modern, fully-enclosed designs. The two are directly related but somehow this is a point many find it hard to comprehend. If you look at the list of concerns that has come up on the Griso/Breva site though the one seemingly of greatest importance seems to be that people are finding that their exhaust pipes are discolouring????? I mean? Sorry, but exhaust pipes do get hot and if you ride a bike hard and often it's pipes won't remain pristine, nor will most of the rest of the machine. If people's enjoyment of their machine comes more from what it looks like than actually riding the thing why not just put it on a plinth in the living room and stare at it???? Sorry, I just don't understand

 

As to desirability and 'Collectability'? I really don't know. Guzzis have been out on the ragged fringe for so long now that I think that their desirability will remain only within the strange sub-grouping of oddballs and weirdos who already appreciate the strong points that they possess. I don't think, (Although I could be wrong.) that they will ever attract the sort of cult status that has now been aquired by the Mk I LeMans which has seen their prices rise to astronomic levels and their ownership rapidly becomming the preserve of either diehard nutters who have owned them for years or the sort of know-nothing wankers who will tell you that they own the only model ever worth having from Mandello

 

Despite having to compete with truly 'Consumerist' motorbikes The V11 series do still maintain a lot of the good points from another era. They remain essentially simple and easy to maintain, they are robust and as long as parts are available it will be possible to keep them running almost indefinitely. Whether the Spineframes and early six speed will have been produced in sufficient numbers to ensure the sort of continuing spare parts supply that is available tor Tonti's and Loops and espeially the five speed box only time will tell, but probably sufficient of them have been made to ensure a steady supply of bits on Fleabay for the rest of most of their current owners' natural lives.

 

At the end of the day if you are a V11 owner who feels the way I do about my Tontis you'll find a way to keep 'em going. If the passion runs out? Well, there are plenty of other options and no doubt there will be other motorbikes that will stir your passions in the same way, or at least in a way that is an acceptable substitute.

 

I'm buying a Griso. Mainly because I've never had a big *new* motorbike before and I think it looks stylish and interesting. But it will also probably be the last *new* motorbike I'll ever buy. Whether it will live up to my expectations I don't know but it probably will be the very last itteration of the venerable air cooled twin that has been churned out of Mandello for the last 40 years. The problem is that there are few, if any machines on the market at the moment that do anything to stir my interest never mind my passion. If the fundamental driving forces within society itself don't change then I can't see that situation changing either. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm living in the past, can't see the wood for the trees, blah, blah, blah. Sorry but I think that's bullshit. Just because I don't want what's being offered in the mainstream and value certain things more highly, (Like simplicity and rebuildability.) doesn't mean I'm blinkered or 'Anti Progress' it's just that I'd like to see the progress take a slighly different path than the one it currently seems to be on. I'm not saying I'm right. I certainly don't expect people to agree with me. Just giving my view on a subject, thassall.

 

Anyone for a nice set of udders?

 

Pete

[Ouiji Veck]

Apples and oranges. (Ducs and Geese?)

I have a beautiful, registered, insured 900ss sitting right

next to my LeMans. It hasn't seen much daylight in a year.

I've even gone to bed thinking "I've got to take the Duc tomorrow

and keep it alive"...only to opt for the LeMans the next morning.

I just can't justify being out on the public rds. on a machine that is suited

a lot more for the race track. Out of respect for the civilians, the police,

my well being and the bike itself. It's built (better than anything I've ever seen)

for high performance ...100% of the time

On the other hand the mass market can't justify being on anything but the uber-bike..

That might be a zx10 a HD or a Duc to different people...I beleive 90% of the new bike

buyers are 70% posers. Who ya gonna pose for on a Moto Whatta?

How many times do you guys have to pronounce MOTO GOOOTzee to uncle Fred when he's telling ya all about his real biker nephew thats got a Big 'Ol loud heavy chromed up whores purse in his drive way.

Keep in mind they cancelled Long Way Around to run more and more episodes of the

intence drama of the "Waiting for the part to come back from the chromer" MC show.

Now you know how the boy that said "The King Has No Clothes" felt.

The only people that we get to pose for are old duffs smoking a pipe that just rode his slash bike half way around the world Even he thinks we're daft...and he dosen't even have a TV

[Admin Jaap]

Big 'Ol loud heavy chromed up whores purse

Thanks! The weather is shite at the moment, but this made my day already, and it's only 9.30 AM.

[pete roper]

   

Thanks! The weather is shite at the moment, but this made my day already, and it's only 9.30 AM.

87751[/snapback]

 

Yes, excellent, although I would of used the term 'Chav's handbag' or 'Slappers purse' the tone of the message is universal .

 

Incidentally, I still think that it is highly unlikely you'd get someone to spout as much bollocks as I do on an internet forum about something as simple as whether a now outdated bike would have any merit in a few years time? It comes down, in the end, to style and passion. I dare ou to go to a Virago or Shadow board and find someone as mad and sad as I am

 

Pete

[grossohc]

Guzzis have been out on the ragged fringe for so long now that I think that their desirability will remain only within the strange sub-grouping of oddballs and weirdos who already appreciate the strong points that they possess.

 

87737[/snapback]

They are way over the horizon, I have just done the riderpower survey on line for RIDE magazine (kills a bit of time while i am working ) and when they ask what bike you ride (dropdown menu) no moto guzzi to pick from, you have to pick other then type it in, so if they arent in a bike survey they are already a forgotten brand (in the uk). surely there are more guzzis on the road here than sachs , bennelis and mvs (in the menu)

Gary

[Ballacraine]

Unfortunately times have changed and we now live in a world where most people think it reasonable to spend $20,000 on something like a motorbike and that it will, within a very few years, either be worn out, or spare parts will be unavailable, or very simply it will be discarded in favor of another *new* product.

 

I'm very aware that few people ride bikes as transport nowadays and they are a *toy* so the mileages covered are going to be much smaller than those of yore. It also seems to be comparatively unimportant to many how complex or simple a machine is, even though many of the same people piss and moan about high servicing costs on complex, modern, fully-enclosed designs.

 

If people's enjoyment of their machine comes more from what it looks like than actually riding the thing why not just put it on a plinth in the living room and stare at it???? Sorry, I just don't understand

 

Wow that is so true! Usually there is little rider involvement using the damn thing, let alone maintaining them. Most barely know how to put fuel in let alone pump up the tyres or adjust a final drive chain! ( For those who haven't seen the light! )

 

As to desirability and 'Collectability'? I really don't know. Guzzis have been out on the ragged fringe for so long now that I think that their desirability will remain only within the strange sub-grouping of oddballs and weirdos who already appreciate the strong points that they possess.

 

Hello...Well, we are certainly amongst friends here then!

 

I'm buying a Griso. Mainly because I've never had a big *new* motorbike before and I think it looks stylish and interesting. But it will also probably be the last *new* motorbike I'll ever buy. ......... The problem is that there are few, if any machines on the market at the moment that do anything to stir my interest never mind my passion. If the fundamental driving forces within society itself don't change then I can't see that situation changing either. .... I'm not saying I'm right. I certainly don't expect people to agree with me. Just giving my view on a subject, thassall.

 

Anyone for a nice set of udders?

 

Pete

87737[/snapback]

 

Well, I can sympathise with that view. It is exactly the way I felt before I bought my Scura.

 

I still think pretty well any of the Tonti big twins are a viable practical road motorcycle, even after all these years. That in itself is a very worthy testament to the people that designed and made them.

Loops whilst still being very worthy, I suspect the drum braked variants may not be up to modern traffic conditions?

 

Guzzis have never been 'mainstream.' The nearest they ever came was the V50 series, where for a heady fifteen minutes Guzzis were 'fashionable.'......

 

LMI as Pete says has fallen victim to the cult status syndrome. To a lesser extent I think the V7 Sport and 750-S3 have fallen in there too.

 

I think the LM2 is very underrated. It's looks didn't suit all. It's headlamp was crap and taller folk didn't fit behing the fairing lowers, but it made a very competent mile-eating sports tourer. I never forgot that so when I was thinking fairings I used that as a starting point.

 

 

Anyway to step a couple of decades back

 

 

 

I don't really know where Guzzi is going, but I do know that the V11 with all its shortcoming is a fine practical motorcycle, when the glitches are sorted.

 

I hope the Breva line, and anything else they come up with proves to be as adaptable and durable.

 

Nige.