Getting more fuel out of gas tank

[antonio carroccio]

Yesterday I went to the Italianday in Amsterdam. From when I live to Amsterdam and back plus some little ride in the neighborhood, was more than 200 (214km). I went to the pomp for some fuel.

Unbelievable, there was only space for 10,5 litre fuel in it.

1 litre for 20 km. Just wonderful!!!

[callison]

This looks like somethiing I would be interested in.  Let us know what you find out Carl.

87829[/snapback]

 

Well, it's not available yet - maybe in August or September. Somewhere in the ballbark of $400 too as it is an entirely new design with custom housing and more functions etc. Details are somewhat sparse but eventually, we'll find out more.

[al_roethlisberger]

From what I recall of my old 2002 tank and the various ideas of fuel-line/fitting routing, the fittings are interchangeable, so in theory the deletion of the fuel sender and instead mounting the fuel return/regulator in its location ought to work.

 

These fittings are simply held on with two hex button bolts, sealed with appropriate fuel resistant o-ring and "goo".

 

The solution on the Jackal is interesting, and I wish I had known about that regulator before my various plumbing adventures with the 2002 tank.

 

One thing I did notice though that using the fuel supply as the fuel return(referencing Mike's "tee" suggestion) induced worse and more frequent vapor lock in my experiments.

 

I don't recall the exact plumbing, but I had a similar setup with two fuel supplies, and a remote regulator, that sent the return fuel back into a tee setup to refill the tank via the two petcock supplies. Unfortunately what ended up happening was that some % of the recirc fuel was going back into the circuit and getting warmer and warmer versus getting into the tank to cool.

 

I had almost instand vapor lock within 10 minutes with this setup.

 

Now, your solution may be a bit different and end up more successful if you put the regulator in the sender hole and isolate the return fuel ...but that was my experience with trying the two petcock solution that allowed recirc fuel back into the circuit directly.

 

So a search for my relocated fuel pump thread, and I think I documented that there.

 

 

 

Al

[dlaing]

Interesting!

The last few quarts being inaccessible may be a vapor lock risk reduction feature

My bike has not had vapor lock...yet.

So, I may risk it....but I will set the return side to reserve.

[luhbo]

Interesting!

The last few quarts being inaccessible may be a vapor lock risk reduction feature

My bike has not had vapor lock...yet.

So, I may risk it....but I will set the return side to reserve.

89717[/snapback]

 

David, this is definitely one of my favorit ideas that I could read on this forum. As soon as I have two conventional petcocks at hand I will try something like this.

Another, probably more complex solution that I once had in mind was to somehow add a piece of tube to the pressure regulator, so that all that backcomig fuel is blown over the top right into the left part of the tank.

 

Hubert

[Guest ratchethack]

Another, probably more complex solution that I once had in mind was to somehow add a piece of tube to the pressure regulator, so that all that backcomig fuel is blown over the top right into the left part of the tank.

Hubert, I've been thinking about this for 2 years. I believe this idea is the most elegant, being brilliantly simple - no compex "plumber's nightmare" of added potential points for leakage!

 

Who'll get a "round tuit" first?

[guzzi323]

Hubert, I've been thinking about this for 2 years.  I believe this idea is the most elegant, being brilliantly simple - no compex "plumber's nightmare" of added potential points for leakage!

 

Who'll get a "round tuit" first?  

89728[/snapback]

 

I actually did this about 6 months ago though I don't have any images of the procedure. It was kind of done on a whim out of misc. brass fittings and some copper tubing I had on hand so I know what sizes or anything I used. I typically do less planning and more seat of the pants improvisation for my mini projects. It's not the right way, but it's what I do.

 

If I recall I ended up cutting threads into the return hole on the top of the regulator and putting a small brass fitting with a length of flexible copper tubing on it. I had to enlarge the hole in the tank for the o.d. of the fitting (and I think I also had to ground down the outside of the fitting too.)

 

I haven't actually checked to see if I get more max. range out of the tank but it's a little more peace of mind when that light comes on and I'm in the middle of nowhere. The nice thing about this mod is if anything goes wrong, the worse that'lll happen is it'll go back to the stock set-up with some copper and brass bits sliding around in the tank.

 

johnk

[dlaing]

Another, probably more complex solution that I once had in mind was to somehow add a piece of tube to the pressure regulator, so that all that backcomig fuel is blown over the top right into the left part of the tank.

 

Hubert

89725[/snapback]

As Ratchet and 323 suggest, it is pretty simple.

Fewer leak points. My idea of a second petcock will require an additional hose and a tee.

Your idea, you get to keep the warning light. My idea uses up the sensor's access port.

Your reserve would simply require tipping the bike to the left to get the remainder out.

My idea you use the petcock's reserve which requires less strength than tipping the bike.

Your idea may increase the risk of vapor lock and that risk will increase ever more greatly as the fuel level drops.

My idea won't increase the risk until the petcock reserve is flipped, but then it will probably be greater of a risk than your method.

I can't believe guzzi 323 has been hiding this accomplished idea for so long

[Guest ratchethack]

Your reserve would simply require tipping the bike to the left to get the remainder out.

There is no remainder "reserve" to get out with this config.

Your idea may increase the risk of vapor lock and that risk will increase ever more greatly as the fuel level drops.

Not at all, it actually reduces the temp of the remaining gas by having a larger volume of gas available for full circulation. I believe the relative "ambient" temp of the gas is insignificant relative to the temp it takes to create vapor lock regardless of the volume left in the tank.

I can't believe guzzi 323 has been hiding this accomplished idea for so long 

Me either! Where've you been, John K?!?!

 

There should be an easier "pre-planned" way of using a fitting schema with flexible gas hose to make this even simpler and less labor-intensive.

[dlaing]

There is no remainder "reserve" to get out with this config.

89751[/snapback]

So how does the fuel on the right side of the hump get used?

[dlaing]

Not at all, it actually reduces the temp of the remaining gas by having a larger volume of gas available for full circulation.  I believe the relative "ambient" temp of the gas is insignificant relative to the temp it takes to create vapor lock regardless of the volume left in the tank.

89751[/snapback]

What am I missing here?

From what I understand, you want to have:

a petcock on the left.

a return on the right that feeds only to the left.

As the fuel level lowers, more and more of the heated fuel will remain on the left side of the tank and the fuel on the right side of the tank will unused and will effectively decrease the volume of gas available for full circulation.

[guzzi323]

My apologies for not writing about this when I did it. The truth is when I had it all back together I couldn't believe I didn't document any of it for sharing and with the grinding I had to do on the outside of the brass fittings to get them into the tank it wasn't looking too pretty.

 

As for dlaing's thoughts about the fuel on the right side of the tank. You're right. Some fuel will remain on the right side, just as it does now. I figure as the left side gets low some of the fuel on the right will slosh over. The remaining gas I think of as an 'emergency' reserve. My BMW has a single petcock on the left side. A couple of times I've accidentally found myself at the end of reserve and was able to lean the bike and get the last bit from the right side of the tank and drive another few miles. I think of this extra gas in the Guzzi in the same 'extra reserve' way.

Hopefully I'll never need it, but peace of mind knowing it's there is a wonderful thing. Especially since when I'm far from home I'm typically ridding alone.

 

My

 

johnk

[luhbo]

I like the petcock idea because I don't like this idiot lamp going on and off everytime I break or accelerate and even more than this I misslike the cables that are connected to it. I already had to replace the silly electric valve with an old cubic aluminum petcock when the cable fell off one day.

 

It's just the wrong procedure. Enter the bike, open the petcocks, press the start button with the left hand while supporting your body with the left ellbow on the tank. That's what people expect. Fortunately Guzzis still don't have a "wheewhee" starter. It's a question of how you've been conditioned...

 

Hubert

[Guest ratchethack]

As for dlaing's thoughts about the fuel on the right side of the tank. You're right. Some fuel will remain on the right side, just as it does now. I figure as the left side gets low some of the fuel on the right will slosh over. The remaining gas I think of as an 'emergency' reserve.

Y'er right, of course. My apologies to you and Dave. I had misrecomembered that part of the functional config.

 

It's that pesky dain bramage actin' up again.....

[luhbo]

So the fastest way to reach an improvement would be to just switch sides for fuel indicator and reflow valve, enough space for it assumed.

 

Should one strand because of any missinterpretation of the yellow light, this way he could at least effectfully lean over the bike to drain the right part. Maybe it's a good thing if he removes all the luggage before doing so.

 

Hubert