Rear Drive Oil Additive or not if using Synthetic?

[DeBenGuzzi]

I don't have moly unless its in the redline, and I tell you that pepto bismol is the bomb. I couldn't believe it the shifts were better and with redline in the case now it idles lower and smoother. I'm just scratching my head I always thought most oils were oils but Redline is like juice from Zues's loin cloth or something.

[Dan M]

I don't have moly unless its in the redline, and I tell you that pepto bismol is the bomb. I couldn't believe it the shifts were better and with redline in the case now it idles lower and smoother. I'm just scratching my head I always thought most oils were oils but Redline is like juice from Zues's loin cloth or something. 

89153[/snapback]

 

My sentiments exactly. Big improvement even over other synthetics.

[Ryland3210]

Uh, why?  What're you trying to achieve, if I may ask?

 

It's neither designed for, nor specified for use with engine oil.

 

It's of no use in the transmission, either, per comments above...but at least it probably wouldn't hurt anything in a transmission.  Again, it's appropriate only for extreme pressure gear cases (again, see above).  Though some engine oil additives contain other forms of molybdenum compounds other than molybdenum disulfide, solid additives like molybdenum disulfide aren't used in engine oil.  I don't know if it'd cause problems or what kind of problems may result, but can't imagine any possible benefit.... Can't say as I know of anyone who's ever tried it, nor anyone who'd ever have a valid or justifiable reason to try it, either....  

89103[/snapback]

 

My purpose in the question was simply to learn something. I don't have a problem to fix. I've never heard of anyone using moly additives in engines either, but thought someone might have some knowledge of why/why not. Engines with ball or roller bearings have the potential for benefit from extreme pressure additives. I don't know about my Sport, but my Norton and Harley both used ball and roller bearings. I just have a habit of seeking the best way to do anything for long term life. I admit sometimes I can be obsessive about that.

[Ryland3210]

Looks like a geologist is needed here.  Molybdenum is a transition element, also referred to as a metalloid, like arsenic.  The sheeit be seriously hard and has one of the highest melting points of any element. 

 

But that misses the point. 

 

We ain't talk'in about the element.  We be talkin' about the compound.  Molybdenum disulphide (we will call it moly, but it is produced as molybdenite).  In its unadulterated state, moly be slicker than owl sheeit. 

 

The primary producer of moly is the Climax mine in Climax, Colorado.  Near Leadville.

 

Now, this stuff can be spread thin. And as the sulphide, very soft and thin. 

 

Boundary layer territory.

 

Go ahead.  Give it a power pulse.  A big one.  Make its day.  Plating out between iron mating surfaces, the covalent bonds between molybdenum and sulphur give, but do not break.  And therein lies the beauty of this ugly stuff.  It plates out thin yet substantial. 

 

Stress it.

 

It seems that is what it likes best.  But heat is not that much a part of it.  So motor oil is a push.  Un-shared transmissions, and differentials, such as Guzzi's prefer, is moly territory  Highest  temps: no.  Anything else: go for it.

 

Of the 92 naturally occurring elements, molybdenum is remarkable in terms of what it can do. 

 

Use it wisely.

 

GG

89106[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the education.

[soloNH]

This thread has been very informative, really held my interest.

 

But this line is the best.

 

"Redline is like juice from Zues's loin cloth or something"

 

Now I'm getting aroused!!!

 

[Guest ratchethack]

My purpose in the question was simply to learn something.  I don't have a problem to fix.  I've never heard of anyone using moly additives in engines either, but thought someone might have some knowledge of why/why not.  Engines with ball or roller bearings have the potential for benefit from extreme pressure additives.  I don't know about my Sport, but my Norton and Harley both used ball and roller bearings.  I just have a habit of seeking the best way to do anything for long term life.  I admit sometimes I can be obsessive about that.

No prob, Ryland. I'm not tryin' to be a smart-ass, I'm here to learn as much as I can also.

 

The Guzzi engine is a plain bearing motor. Laverdas, along with Harleys, have rolling-element cranks.

 

Moly in the form of molybdenum disulfide solid particle dispersion additives wouldn't be appropriate for these, either. They have no gears with extreme pressure requirements in them. In fact, with the exception of oil pump drives and the like, to my knowledge none of these engines have any gears in 'em at all. I b'lieve the Laverda is a unit construction so it shares crank oil with the trans? But I don't know if moly'd cause any problems in any of these. Again - can't imagine any benefits, either, 'cause it's not the proper application....

[dlaing]

IMHO engine oils are thin on particulate additives like zinc, phosporus, Moly, etc.

If can find the moly engine additive, it should not hurt...maybe it will take money from your wallet and clog your filter, but it will also reduce wear a little, not sure where, but the cam chain would be one place.

Of course I just waste enough money changing the synthetic motorcycle oil every 3000 miles, so I would not bother with additives.

Although I went 5000 miles with the last batch of Repsol...good sheit!

But if I used automotive synthetic, I would consider a moly or a zinc/phospate additive.

(might be cheaper than the Repsol...)

[DeBenGuzzi]

IMHO engine oils are thin on particulate additives like zinc, phosporus, Moly, etc.

If can find the moly engine additive, it should not hurt...maybe it will take money from your wallet and clog your filter, but it will also reduce wear a little, not sure where, but the cam chain would be one place.

Of course I just waste enough money changing the synthetic motorcycle oil every 3000 miles, so I would not bother with additives.

Although  I went 5000  miles with the last batch of Repsol...good sheit!

But if I used automotive synthetic, I would consider a moly or a zinc/phospate additive.

(might be cheaper than the Repsol...)

89218[/snapback]

I'm done with the crappy syn they were putting in at the dealership its called golden spectro and for the money should have really been filled with gold (I hear a good lubricant) I'll stick to my slightly higher buck redline every 5k.

how often should I change out the tran/bev with my shockproof?

 

speaking of it, I should come out with an oil that has gold flakes in it like goldschlager!!! should be just as good of a sales tech as Moly

[Ryland3210]

No prob, Ryland.  I'm not tryin' to be a smart-ass, I'm here to learn as much as I can also.

 

The Guzzi engine is a plain bearing motor.  Laverdas, along with Harleys, have rolling-element cranks.

 

Moly in the form of molybdenum disulfide solid particle dispersion additives wouldn't be appropriate for these, either.  They have no gears with extreme pressure requirements in them.  In fact, with the exception of oil pump drives and the like, to my knowledge none of these engines have any gears in 'em at all.  I b'lieve the Laverda is a unit construction so it shares crank oil with the trans?  But I don't know if moly'd cause any problems in any of these.  Again - can't imagine any benefits, either, 'cause it's not the proper application....

89211[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the info. on Guzzi construction. Ball and roller bearings do reach "extreme" pressures at the line contact point, but not the sliding motion of hypoids. I suspect moly disulfide works well in hypoids because it helps reduce friction and wear in shear regimes, but is pushed aside in the straight compression rolling motion of ball and roller bearings.

 

As far as clogging filters is concerned, that should not be an issue. According to the particle size spec on the additive I purchased, it flows right through the relatively large pores of the filter element.

 

But my own conclusion at this time is that the risk of high temperature breakdown in the engine (which I have no real data on, just the fear of the unknown) of the additive outweighs the potential gain. Teflon particulate additives to reduce engine friction have been around along time, and we know carbon tetraflouride has a temperature rating far higher than combustion engines.

[beauchemin]

The Guzzi engine is a plain bearing motor.  Laverdas, along with Harleys, have rolling-element cranks.

 

This is a factual statement, however it is illegal to use the names "Laverda" and "Harley" in the same sentence, facts notwithstanding. Shame on you!

[dlaing]

This is a factual statement, however it is illegal to use the names "Laverda" and "Harley" in the same sentence, facts notwithstanding.  Shame on you!

89271[/snapback]

Yah, it is kinda like saying cops and robbers both smoke marijuana.

It may be true, but it is illegal to say.

[Guest ratchethack]

...it is illegal to use the names "Laverda" and "Harley" in the same sentence, facts notwithstanding.  Shame on you!

I've gotta admit.....of all the abominable and horrendous offenses I've committed on these here pages, this one might actually take the cake....

 

I'll do my penance by taking 3 shots of moly before every ride for a week....

[dlaing]

I'll do my penance by taking 3 shots of moly before every ride for a week....

89276[/snapback]

You mean 3 photo shots of Mollie, the Guzzi Girl at Cycle Garden, right?

http://www.cyclegarden.com/cgi-local/Guzzi...ct=Mollie_Green