V11 Sport vs R1100S

[badmotogoozer]

  What am I missing?

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Ohlins.

 

Rj

[beauchemin]

Ohlins.

 

Rj

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I went with Wilbers - the same high quality.

[Guzzirider]

Its a shame that you are still not happy with the handling of your V11.

 

I know mine is not perfect, but its as good as its going to get and I love riding it on curvy roads. Its never going to be an R6 but its good enough for my riding needs.

 

I did a lot of wet, twisty and muddy single track roads covered in loose stones in Scotland last weekend and I would not have wanted to be on anything else. I prefer stability to superfast turn in.

 

I have ridden with a guy on a Boxer Cup replica and it looked like it handled nicely- but I wonder if it is much better than a V11?

 

Only a test ride will tell I guess.

 

Guy

[Guest ratchethack]

Its a shame that you are still not happy with the handling of your V11.

 

I know mine is not perfect, but its as good as its going to get and I love riding it on curvy roads. Its never going to be an R6 but its good enough for my riding needs.

 

I did a lot of wet, twisty and muddy single track roads covered in loose stones in Scotland last weekend and I would not have wanted to be on anything else. I prefer stability to superfast turn in.

My sentiments exactly. It's too bad that our favorite motorcycles aren't magic carpets that defy the laws of Physics -- but how many V11 owners acquired them because they're known to out-handle or out-accelerate every other 2-wheeled conveyance known to the mind of man?

 

There's a pervasive mentality that seems to relentlessly compel people toward the bigger-better-faster. In some people, it seems to be almost a mindless, autonomic reflex. These people seem to quickly tire of their V11's. I've seen it happen many times. Now I'm all for making the best of what we've got -- and I reckon we've GOT a very fine machine indeed. But rather than enjoy 'em for what they are, many will try to modify 'em into what they never can be. Ultimately it's a fool's errand that ends in selling the Guzzi off for another bike, at which point they start the cycle of pursuit of non-existant perfection all over again...

 

It's a mentality based in pure fantasy that of course the moto-journalists, aftermarket suppliers, and volume "moto appliance" manufacturers all try to encourage. After all, it's their entire raison d'être. I reckon they do a pretty good job of sowing the seeds of constant discontent....but I just ain't gettin' on board THIS train...

 

BAA, TJM & YMMV

[badmotogoozer]

There's a pervasive mentality that seems to relentlessly compel people toward the bigger-better-faster.  In some people, it seems to be almost a mindless, autonomic reflex. 

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Mindless? hardly <_ bigger and faster perhaps... but i think the quest to make something better than it is what drives new innovation. you yourself have been guilty of this with your commendable work stock forks.>

 

Rj

[Guzzirider]

Yeah I have nothing at all against tweaking Guzzis- I can't leave mine alone- I just want it to be the best it can be within reason. Lets face it, how many standard V11s are out there? Not a lot looking at what many forum members post on their pofile. Saying that, if somebody is happy with his standard bike then fair enough- no point in changing it.

 

I am fortunate enough to have a Jap sportsbike in the garage if I want real speed, but I love my V11 more than anything and will never sell it- the first time I have ever felt that way about a bike.

 

Guy

[Guest SDKFZ111]

My sentiments exactly.   It's too bad that our favorite motorcycles aren't magic carpets that defy the laws of Physics -- but how many V11 owners acquired them because they're known to out-handle or out-accelerate every other 2-wheeled conveyance known to the mind of man?

 

There's a pervasive mentality that seems to relentlessly compel people toward the bigger-better-faster.  In some people, it seems to be almost a mindless, autonomic reflex.  These people seem to quickly tire of their V11's.  I've seen it happen many times.  Rather than enjoy 'em for what they are, they try to modify 'em into what they never can be.  Ultimately it's a fool's errand that ends in selling the Guzzi off for another bike, at which point they start the cycle of pursuit of non-existant perfection all over again...

 

It's a mentality based in pure fantasy that of course the moto-journalists, aftermarket suppliers, and volume "moto appliance" manufacturers all try to encourage.  After all, it's their entire raison d'être.  I reckon they do a pretty good job of sowing the seeds of constant discontent....but I just ain't gettin' on board THIS train...  

 

BAA, TJM & YMMV

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I was going to reply but-------argh!

[Guest ratchethack]

Mindless?  hardly     Bigger and faster perhaps... but I think the quest to make something better than it is is what drives new innovation.  You yourself have been guilty of this with your commendable work with the stock forks. 

 

Rj

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Well, Ryan -- it isn't every day I get such a compliment! Many thanks, my friend!

 

But as to being "guilty" of making something better than it is? Like I said, there's nothing wrong with making the best of what we've got. I consider properly springing and setting up the suspension to be just this. It's basic, fundamental, relatively low-effort, and provides very high value relative to cost without doing any second-guessing of the original design intent and engineering of the bike. In the case of the Marz fork, we're issued a set of ~.6 kg/mm springs (by my attempts at a self-educated guesstimation with scales, beams, and direct comparison to springs of known rate). This makes 'em just right if you happen to weigh 125-150 lbs. They hardly do any justice to the capabilities of the fork or the entire chassis for most of us, myself included. I've considered the importance of matching springs on every new bike I've owned to be a first priority, and I reckon everyone who wants the most out of their bike's capability as designed and intended by the mfgr. is wise to do the same.

 

Are properly rated springs "new innovation"? I dinnae think so...nor are matching springs and sags to rider weight anything like an attempt to make any bike into something it can never be....

 

Nothing wrong with new innovation! But strapping new innovation onto a sow's ear ain't gonna make it a silk purse, either.

[beauchemin]

My sentiments exactly.   It's too bad that our favorite motorcycles aren't magic carpets that defy the laws of Physics -- but how many V11 owners acquired them because they're known to out-handle or out-accelerate every other 2-wheeled conveyance known to the mind of man?

 

There's a pervasive mentality that seems to relentlessly compel people toward the bigger-better-faster.  In some people, it seems to be almost a mindless, autonomic reflex.  These people seem to quickly tire of their V11's.  I've seen it happen many times.  Now I'm all for making the best of what we've got -- and I reckon we've GOT a very fine machine indeed.   But rather than enjoy 'em for what they are, many will try to modify 'em into what they never can be.  Ultimately it's a fool's errand that ends in selling the Guzzi off for another bike, at which point they start the cycle of pursuit of non-existant perfection all over again...

 

It's a mentality based in pure fantasy that of course the moto-journalists, aftermarket suppliers, and volume "moto appliance" manufacturers all try to encourage.  After all, it's their entire raison d'être.  I reckon they do a pretty good job of sowing the seeds of constant discontent....but I just ain't gettin' on board THIS train... <_>

 

BAA, TJM & YMMV

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The implication from your comments above is that you are diagnosing my mentality. I'm pretty sure that you didn't mean to offend. In similar fashion I don't mean to be impolite, but your views (however interesting) are irrelevant to the OBJECTIVE differences that I explicitly asked for in this thread.

 

Look, I never even said that I intended to replace my V11 with an R1100S. Furthermore, I never said I was looking for "bigger-better-faster". I only pointed out that my V11 (to which I have made sensible suspension modifications) is not sastifying me in the bumpy-road handling department compared to my previous bike which was a 1975 Laverda. I'm not expecting a "magic carpet", but I would like a bike that can handle bumpy mountain roads because that is one of my favourite places to ride. Maybe there is something more that I can do to improve the suspension on my V11, but I doubt it. In a nutshell, I want handling and smoothness in addition to some degree of character. I think I am slowly talking myself into a second set of wheels!

[Guest ratchethack]

Just offering an opinion, Chris. I didn't mean to offend, but in retrospect I can see how it might appear to you that I was critiquing your mentality. This was sincerely NOT my intent. If I've offended, please accept my apologies. I wasn't implying anything about you specifically. As I mentioned, as far as I can tell you've gone about your setup as well as anyone I know of in terms of making the best of what you've GOT...

 

I can't offer any objective differences between the 2 bikes, sorry. Sometimes I don't always get what I ask for in my posts, either....

 

But sometimes the tangents take us in interesting directions, too. N'est-ce pas?

[Dan M]

I spent a day in southern California last summer riding an '02 1100S. It is true that comparing the two is difficult, as they fill slightly different catagories in the motorcycle arena. Ignoring as you said the vast difference in character and emotional feedback, the one difference about the two that is glaringly clear is that the Beemer absolutely rails in the corners compared to the spine frame. The German bike's front end is truly a great working design. Comfort is surprisingly close, with the BM edging out the Lemans simply by having better leg room. The factory heated grips, the very well designed fairing, the factory panniers, the ABS, it all makes it very attractive.

BUT, BUT, if you ever get one of these newer oil head bikes, pray very hard you never have to have any work done. It is very expensive, and you can't do it!! BMW doggedly is sticking to oil control seals with only one seal edge instead of the standard two. The shaft drive of that era has a reputation of needing the rear drive unit [differencial] needing it's oil seal re-done semi annually. They have a reputation for the rear engine seal going, destroying the clutch in the process. You can't change your own brake fluid without telling the ABS computer you have put in new fluid. The EFI, after 12 yrs, is still notchy and difficult to modulate during low speed manouvers.

I could go on.

 

 

                                                                                Ciao, Steve G.

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I don't agree about the reliability issues. I've had no mechanical failures on my RT. Routine maintenance: fluid changes, valve adjustments, TB sync, are nearly identical in ease and time on both bikes. The EFI on the 04 BMW twin spark engine has no surging trouble of prior models. My V11 has had a few more hiccups than my BMW. I now have my suspension on my V11 sorted and am fine tuning. It is much, much better than before but still not quite as flickable as the BMW, and mine is an RT not an S. (probably 100lbs heavier) I can take or leave the ABS, certainly a nice safety feature, but the trade off is complexity and poor "feel" compared to the V11's Brembos. The BMW motor is buzzier than the MG, the power delivery feels more flat than the MG so not as exciting. Parts availibility for the BMW is much better.

So much for the objective part. If that is the criteria for your decision, buy the BMW. You'll be making a mistake though. Unless I'm riding in bad weather or going long distances, the Guzzi is the one that makes me smile.

[Bigrider]

Maybe we should compare the new R1200S with the MGS-01. The S is supposed to to have 122 ponies vs the 85 the 1100S had. Big boost in go power.

 

Dave H

San Antonio, TX

[dbdicker]

Will probably be a lot cheaper to sort out your V11 suspension than splash out on a BMW.

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I agree with you.  But I think I've done what anyone can reasonably be expected to do, and I don't think there's a silver bullet.  I have re-sprung the front for my weight, and changed to lighter weight fluid to get the correct damping.  I've replaced the shock with one that has the correct spring and damping rates.  Finally, I have set the sag and fiddled with the damping.  What am I missing?

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Ohlins.

 

Rj

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Not Ohlins....Not.

 

I spent to have my ohlins rear spring replaced, the shock revalved and the front forks fresh oil.....went to a race specialist to have weight taken with gear, sag and damping front and rear set by the genius and still.......STILL........I can ride my fat ST1300 MORE CONFIDENTLY (if not faster) on all manner of bumpy stuff you speak of.

 

With my Scura, I've got to always trust that it'll stick and ignore the 'feels' I get but with my Honda (and previous BMW), I've never gotten any other feedback but security and a confidence to lean it further.

 

You're missing nothing........unless I'm missing it too.

 

but if you find out.....let me in on it, willya??

[Steve G.]

I was going to reply but-------argh!

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You're right, save your efforts. It could turn into another global warming thread

Ciao, Steve G.

[jbuzbee]

Maybe we should compare the new R1200S with the MGS-01.

 

I tried that once here - nobody seemed to want to talk about it much: