Electric Start

[Guest roofer1]

Guys,

 

The electrical bugs are at it again. Happened last Summer, the electric start would not work. The cluth clicks, the button clicks but when I engage both, nothing happens. I ended up "popping" the clutch to fire her up, and go for a ride.

 

I checked the fuses - their fine. Took the harness apart, sprayed some cleaner and re-connected - nothing. Several day's later, thought I would give it a try, and, ka-powee, the electric start kicked-in, and the motor fire up. Lasted for several weeks - no problems.

 

Put it away for the Winter, took it out several weeks ago, gave it my blessing, and she fired right up with the electric start. Phew. Lasted for several weeks, now nothing. Back to "popping" the clutch.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks.

 

Roofer1

[Martin Barrett]

It's got to be a sticky switch. side stand/clutch/neutral? Thats if you did the two bullet connectors under the front left of the tank, I think these are the ones that sometimes work if you waggle the bars.

[Murray]

If its a sticking switch then it wouldn't always bump start ethier. Get battery load tested get charging system tested and make sure its charging the battery. If they all seem OK take it for a ride and when you park it up disconnect the battery you only have to do one terminal. Connect battery after leaving it usual period and if it fire up on the starter motor then you have a current drain somewhere.

[callison]

I'll go along with what Martin said. If by "popping" the clutch, you mean pulling in the lever and the bike starts, then the problem is the neutral switch and commiserate with not being able to start, you will also not have a neutral light on the dash. Put simply, the bike thinks it is in gear and the starter is locked out. Mine does this very, very regularly. I just sit on the bike, put the sidestand up, pull in the clutch, start the bike and I'm good to go. You would have thought that with an entirely new gearbox on the V11 Sports that they would have made a neutral switch that worked. They didn't. That's so Italian. Alternatively, if everything looks like it ought to work, but the starter itself doesn't give so much as a peep, it would likley be the clutch switch. Two things there, the switch itself - and the wiring. Starting at the simplest point, put your head down by the clutch lever housing on the left handlebar and listen to the clutch handle as you pull it in. If you don't hear a "Click", then the microswitch needs to adjusted. If the "Click" is there, then you have to pull the tank and look for two wires in bullet connectors on the left side of the spine just aft of the left leading edge of the gas tank. Look for a black wire and a black/white wire going into two bullet connectors. Pull them apart and put them back together a few times to wipe any corrosion off of the contact surfaces and put everything back together. If you want to test your work before putting the tank back on, remove the seat and pull the connector off of the ECU. This will prevent the ECU from turning on the fuel pump while you have the tank disconnected. The starter circuit itself doesn't have any direct ECU interaction, so you can while away your merry day chasing down connector and relay gremlins without shooting gas all over the place or worrying about toasting the ECU.

[docc]

I thought by 'popping the clutch' he meant bump starting, rolling the bike in gear with the clutch disengaged then releasing it to allow the rear wheel to turn the motor over.

 

If so the culprit is likel;y the clutch switch sticking, its bullet connectors as mentioned or the middle relay.

 

Soon some one will post a link to "know the rules" which emphasizes the relays and the battery.

[dlaing]

On your original post you said

Clutch switch seems fine, it clicks every time. Bike is in neutral, kick-stand up, everything ready to go....when the switch first seems "to-go" that is cut-out, if I rock the handlebars a bit back and forth, if I get lucky, it will turn over. For the most part, that does not work.

 

Sounds to me more and more like a bad relay.

Thanks for all the responses.....

 

I removed tank and found the connection. It is a 5 pin bullet connection. Replacing that connection troubled me a bit....so I decided to try a temporary fix.

 

I took two small electrical tie wraps, wrapped the connection on either side, and joined the male/female sides together tight in hopes of promoting a better connection.....

 

It worked. The bike fired right up. Question? Is it fairly straight forward to replace that connection, so a more permanent fix can be put in-place.

 

Thanks.

If that is truly the problem, I suppose you can do what others recommended and clean, silicone, and recrimp, but I myself am no good at recrimping, so I recommend the more drastic.

Cut off the expensive, elegant connectors, that you are sure are not working, and replace with these http://www.webbikeworld.com/Reviewed-motor...ucts/posi-lock/

Problem solved....as long as that was really the problem...

But you have tried the less drastic and replaced the relays, right?

Until you get the relays, don't even bother wasting your time pulling the tank.

Also, I am still not clear as to whether when you press the start button, is the starter motor turning or not.

Trying to get by on a marginal battery is a bad idea and will drive you nuts.

Assuming you have a Spark brand battery, the battery should be showing atleast 12.65 V before you try to start, otherwise starting is a gamble.

Dip below 12.5V and forgetaboutit.

Fully charged is just over 12.8V for the Spark and for the Hawker batteries.

Yuasa, I believe, are fully charged at a lower voltage and will probably start it at a lower voltage.

Search the forum for the right battery.

Yuasa make a few that are supposed to work and the Hawker Odyssey is the easiest direct replacement, unless you already have a Yuasa, then the easiest is to replace with same model Yuasa.

Odyssey needs expensive special charger, Yuasa does not.

KNOW THE RULES!

[jrt]

Dave- the posilock things look cool. Have you used them?

[big J]

Starter solenoid?

[Guest roofer1]

On your original post you said

If that is truly the problem, I suppose you can do what others recommended and clean, silicone, and  recrimp, but I myself am no good at recrimping, so I recommend the more drastic.

Cut off the expensive, elegant connectors, that you are sure are not working, and replace with these http://www.webbikeworld.com/Reviewed-motor...ucts/posi-lock/

Problem solved....as long as that was really the problem...

But you have tried the less drastic and replaced the relays, right?

Until you get the relays, don't even bother wasting your time pulling the tank.

Also, I am still not clear as to whether when you press the start button, is the starter motor turning or not.

Trying to get by on a marginal battery is a bad idea and will drive you nuts.

Assuming you have a Spark brand battery, the battery should be showing atleast 12.65 V before you try to start, otherwise starting is a gamble.

Dip below 12.5V and forgetaboutit.

Fully charged is just over 12.8V for the Spark and for the Hawker batteries.

Yuasa, I believe, are fully charged at a lower voltage and will probably start it at a lower voltage.

Search the forum for the right battery.

Yuasa make a few that are supposed to work and the Hawker Odyssey is the easiest direct replacement, unless you already have a Yuasa, then the easiest is to replace with same model Yuasa.

Odyssey needs expensive special charger, Yuasa does not.

KNOW THE RULES!

88760[/snapback]

 

Thanks for all the responses....you guys are great.

[dlaing]

Dave- the posilock things look cool.  Have you used them?

88779[/snapback]

Yep.

I used them when I went to the Electrex voltage regulator.

Probably the most reliable connection method out there as the wires are held together under reliable pressure and the models with a seal seam to seal nearly as well as the best amp connectors, but I have not tested for water proofness.

The only problem is they get a little bulky and ugly compared to say an 8 way Amp connector.

Also, they could be cheaper...

As I run into electrical problems in the years to come, I plan on phasing out the less water resistant connectors with these.

[dlaing]

The only problem is they get a little bulky and ugly compared to say an 8 way Amp connector..

88916[/snapback]

hmmm, I just saw this for 4way for the first time.

But I don't think it seals and it appears to rely on more conventional connectors.

[Richard]

I have had a similar problem on my Rosso Corsa. I don't have a clutch switch. The starter solenoid clicks in, but the starter doesn't spin up. If pressure is kept on the starter switch it will evenually spin up. This is an intermittent fault. I have taken it off and put the starter from my 1100 sport on there (same starter) and it fires perfectly every time. I have cleaned the brushes and the armature and still no difference. On bench tests I can't get it to fail. Does anyone have any ideas, please?

[pasotibbs]

I have had a similar problem on my Rosso Corsa. I don't have a clutch switch. The starter solenoid clicks in, but the starter doesn't spin up. If pressure is kept on the starter switch it will evenually spin up. This is an intermittent fault. I have taken it off and put the starter from my 1100 sport on there (same starter) and it fires perfectly every time. I have cleaned the brushes and the armature and still no difference. On bench tests I can't get it to fail. Does anyone have any ideas, please?

[pasotibbs]

I have had a similar problem on my Rosso Corsa. I don't have a clutch switch. The starter solenoid clicks in, but the starter doesn't spin up. If pressure is kept on the starter switch it will evenually spin up. This is an intermittent fault. I have taken it off and put the starter from my 1100 sport on there (same starter) and it fires perfectly every time. I have cleaned the brushes and the armature and still no difference. On bench tests I can't get it to fail. Does anyone have any ideas, please?

 

The only thing I can think would give this fault would be burnt/dirty connections in the solenoid, as from what you have said you have checked and cleaned the motor but not the solenoid?(sealed unit ?)

I think this would explain the fact that it works on the bench as the current it needs to pass for the motor to spin unloaded will be way less than that required to turn a 1100 V twin !!!

 

Next time it fails you could try testing the switch feed to the solenoid with a test light (this will check all the other suggestions in one go)If that checks out try shorting the battery feed and stater feed connections on the solenoid with a jump lead connector(don't touch the frame or starter case !!!) , or something suitably robust as it will get a little bit dramatic with big sparks (make sure its out of gear and wear gloves as whatever you use could get hot !!) if it turns over its the solenoid if not its the Starter.

If your not sure about this stop at the test light part and seek out a mechanic !!

[luhbo]

I once had a similar problem, too. The solenoid clicked, but no turning starter. I also thought that it could be a bad contact in the starter relais/solenoid, the more as knocking on the starter in most cases brought it to life. This is a typical fault that could be seen on all Bosch Anlasser that I ever had to do with.

 

Here it was a completely different story. One day when knocking on the starter again I noticed that the starter had become really hot, hotter as valve covers sometimes get. As it is placed somwhere where such temperatures are not to be expected I dismounted and opened it.

 

I found that again one of the mags had come loose and was already broken in two big and many many smal parts. The culprit were the small parts. They stick to the back of the anchor and there they shorten the commutator. Knocking probably made them move a bit and the starter starting.

 

After a complete cleaning and the reglueing of the big parts the problem was solved. No more aching knuckles. And a new battery on the shelf. Also I found that you can easily hear whether the starter is ok or not. A good example can be heard freewheelin' for nearly a second after releasing the start button.

 

Hubert