FBF Pistons before and after dyno charts

[Baldini]

Soundsa good Mr guzzirider! Looks like increase in drive just where you want it for the road w/o much loss in top end

 

KB

[dlaing]

Just looked at a couple of V11 dyno charts on Guzzitech and they do cross at the 5252 mark.

 

I won't worry about it- the bike feels nice to ride and that is the important thing but it is an interesting observation!

 

cheers

 

Guy 

 

P.S. Could it be anything to do with the fact that Hobbsport use ECE power rather than SAE?

90201[/snapback]

I don't think so.

I think the torque numbers on the graph are just off by about 10 foot pounds.

a lot of posted dynos have mistakes like that....not sure why

[Garsdad]

Hi guy,

There's something wrong with that dyno chart. I believe the HP and torque curves should always cross at 5252 rpm, yours cross about 6000 rpm. 

 

horsepower = rpm x torque / 5252

 

torque = 5252 x horsepower / rpm

 

I bet your peak hp will get better once the piston & rings are worn in a little more.  It seems like every post that I've seen from those with the FBF pistons has been very positive.  This could be a nice little winter project for me!  Thanks for the information.

90197[/snapback]

 

 

That caugth my eye, too... maybe THAT's the reason their numbers are different from the rest of the world... they are using the wrong formula!

 

Since you can measure torque and compute HP, try subbing the numbers and see what you get...

 

at about 7650rpm, you show 60 ft-lbs torque, so HP should be 87 at this point.

[Richard]

Guzzirider,

 

What was the outcome of flowing the heads - how much better was the ride-ability afterwards.....?

[Guzzirider]

Guzzirider,

 

What was the outcome of flowing the heads - how much better was the ride-ability afterwards.....?

 

 

Still on the "to do" list Richard!

 

Have spazzed too much money on other projects but will get there one day! Have got the valves still in a box in my garage and will get round to it eventually.

 

I've now done over 10,000 miles on the FBF pistons and they are just fine.

 

Guy

[savagehenry]

Hello All,

I purchased my Nero this summer from FBF. All mods were done by FBF, by the previous owner after he purchased the bike new. After 5000 miles he decided it wasn't what he wanted. His outlay and loss were my gain. A quick run-down of the mods:

FBF 11:1 piston set

Breva cam

FBF oversize intake and exhaust valves

FBF hand ported and polished heads

FBF modified open airbox w/ BMC filter

FBF exhaust cross over

FBF Carbon fiber slip ons

Power Commander (to be removed, for a full ECU remapping this winter)

Tuned on the FBF Dyno

FBF claimed, on their webpage for this bike, that it dyno'ed at "90 horsepower at the rear wheel."

I was also told the total of parts and labor was about $5800.00.

 

I did not recieve the promised dyno report with the bike. It arrived with leaking Ohlins front fork. Basically, the head of their sales department, the "gentleman" who did the deal, front to back, will not return my calls, much less respond to my other attempts to get the aforementioned Dyno report. The front end is fixed, along with some other things, and we move along...

I had never rode ANY Moto Guzzi before buying mine. My dealer, an ex racer who has told me "You could have done better..." on at least one other bike, said after his test ride (quite calmly, Relaxed even,) "You bought a REALLY nice bike."

I don't have the "4-5K flat spot", she doesn't like holding at 3K (that's where I get the occasional POP), and LOVES the over 6K range. Sounds incredibly deep and rumbly, which ALOT of people, riders and not, comment that it sounds "beautiful" or words to that effect. I ride almost all commuter stuff, daily. Just got back from 450 miles of twisty, and empty, valley and river filled S.W. Wisconsin. I fail too see how I could have enjoyed it more.

I have since rode a stock Griso, and my bike, "4:20", back to back. Not to knock the other bike, but I knew as soon as I got back on mine, I bought the right one....and HELL YES, the money HE spent was well worth it, to ME! Life is short, and fun is NOT FREE, but you'll long forget the cash when your'e FLYING down some road, somewhere... Later, S.H.

[antonio carroccio]

Still on the "to do" list Richard!

Guy, I do not think this is going with the other. The High compression pistons, are also high. So there will be less space in the cylinder for the detonation.

If you are going to flow the heads, I think you must replace the old pistons in the heads.

 

Try to measure how much space you have in the heads before flowing.

You can let it measure by the cammes (camshaft).

But if wont, you may flow the heads for least 0.3 mm max.

 

If you have some time, I want let do this work by Bruno Scola. It will be double work, flowing the heads and twin sparks.

[Guzzirider]

Guy, I do not think this is going with the other. The High compression pistons, are also high. So there will be less space in the cylinder for the detonation.

If you are going to flow the heads, I think you must replace the old pistons in the heads.

 

Try to measure how much space you have in the heads before flowing.

You can let it measure by the cammes (camshaft).

But if wont, you may flow the heads for least 0.3 mm max.

 

If you have some time, I want let do this work by Bruno Scola. It will be double work, flowing the heads and twin sparks.

 

You are quite right Antonio in as much as I need to think carefully before wading in with any more mods- I'll have a chat with a respected tuner before I go any further- but in the meantime I am concentrating on converting the Jackal so that takes up all my time and cash.

[guzzi jon]

You are quite right Antonio in as much as I need to think carefully before wading in with any more mods- I'll have a chat with a respected tuner before I go any further- but in the meantime I am concentrating on converting the Jackal so that takes up all my time and cash.

 

My precrash sorted 02 Lemans made 85 rear wheel bhp and fully smoked my griso, much faster, not even in the same class as for power and top end

[polebridge]

Hello All,

I purchased my Nero this summer from FBF. All mods were done by FBF, by the previous owner after he purchased the bike new. After 5000 miles he decided it wasn't what he wanted. His outlay and loss were my gain. A quick run-down of the mods:

FBF 11:1 piston set

Breva cam

FBF oversize intake and exhaust valves

FBF hand ported and polished heads

FBF modified open airbox w/ BMC filter

FBF exhaust cross over

FBF Carbon fiber slip ons

Power Commander (to be removed, for a full ECU remapping this winter)

Tuned on the FBF Dyno

FBF claimed, on their webpage for this bike, that it dyno'ed at "90 horsepower at the rear wheel."

I was also told the total of parts and labor was about $5800.00.

 

I did not recieve the promised dyno report with the bike. It arrived with leaking Ohlins front fork. Basically, the head of their sales department, the "gentleman" who did the deal, front to back, will not return my calls, much less respond to my other attempts to get the aforementioned Dyno report. The front end is fixed, along with some other things, and we move along...

I had never rode ANY Moto Guzzi before buying mine. My dealer, an ex racer who has told me "You could have done better..." on at least one other bike, said after his test ride (quite calmly, Relaxed even,) "You bought a REALLY nice bike."

I don't have the "4-5K flat spot", she doesn't like holding at 3K (that's where I get the occasional POP), and LOVES the over 6K range. Sounds incredibly deep and rumbly, which ALOT of people, riders and not, comment that it sounds "beautiful" or words to that effect. I ride almost all commuter stuff, daily. Just got back from 450 miles of twisty, and empty, valley and river filled S.W. Wisconsin. I fail too see how I could have enjoyed it more.

I have since rode a stock Griso, and my bike, "4:20", back to back. Not to knock the other bike, but I knew as soon as I got back on mine, I bought the right one....and HELL YES, the money HE spent was well worth it, to ME! Life is short, and fun is NOT FREE, but you'll long forget the cash when your'e FLYING down some road, somewhere... Later, S.H.

 

I have to agree about the sound of your bike. I was in the FBF dealership for a test ride of a Lemans that they had there. I liked the bike and the sales guy offered to show me a really nice one that was in for service. They took me back into the garage and showed me your bike (it may not have been yours at the time). I thought that it was a beautiful bike. The mechanic offered to start it up just so that I could hear it and wow! It was the sound of that bike that convinced me that I had to get a MG. I wound up buying a Coppa Italia from a dealer in New York city. It came with the Ti kit, which I installed, and I later added a PCIII, a FBF X-over pipe, and airbox replacement kit. I took it to FBF for a custom map and it now makes 87 hp and 74 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheel. I am very happy with my decision.

 

Enjoy the music.

[savagehenry]

To Quote Polebridge's Post: "I have to agree about the sound of your bike. I was in the FBF dealership for a test ride of a Lemans that they had there. I liked the bike and the sales guy offered to show me a really nice one that was in for service. They took me back into the garage and showed me your bike (it may not have been yours at the time). I thought that it was a beautiful bike. The mechanic offered to start it up just so that I could hear it and wow! It was the sound of that bike that convinced me that I had to get a MG..."

 

And to that I say, "Aw Shucks, THANKS!" , and no, it was not mine at the time, OH how a simple machine can change one's life ...S.H.

[Dimitris]

I am thinking seriously of buying this FBF piston set for my V11 Le Mans... Is there anything I should be aware of?

[Guzzirider]

I am thinking seriously of buying this FBF piston set for my V11 Le Mans... Is there anything I should be aware of?

 

Yes- wll make a very positive improvement to your mid range but they like good (high octane) fuel- not a problem in the UK.

 

check out the price at FBF in Italy- may be cheaper than the USA- the iItalians are happy to haggle and give you a discount.

 

Guy

[Guest ratchethack]

I am thinking seriously of buying this FBF piston set for my V11 Le Mans... Is there anything I should be aware of?

Well, yes.

 

WARNING! THE FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCES MAY NOT APPLY!

 

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS NECESSARILY WHAT ALWAYS HAPPENS, FOR GOD'S SAKE!

 

NO SUCH IMPLICATIONS ARE EITHER MADE OR INFERRED!!

 

-- BUT ALL STATEMENTS ARE 100% TRUE!

 

I'll simply attempt to provide a little "counterpoint" here to all those who will tell you that high-comp pistons are the dog's danglies -- and there are LOTS of 'em out there -- possibly more'n a few who've actually done it and don't regret it!!

 

HOWEVER:

 

Many who install high-comp pistons seem to believe that they're some kind of free, magic "bolt on horsepower". While it's certainly true that with proper mapping, tuning, and fuel, you will certainly lift power and torque curves substantially, there are trade-off considerations that are all too often overlooked by the uninformed.

 

I have a friend who bought a 2000 Sport with high-comp pistons already installed off a dealer showroom floor, who went thru a horrendous year-long litany of gruesome problems trying to get the bike into a rideable state of tune. The problem as he saw it at first was to make the bike's tuning compatible with available fuel, so as to get it to run on California pump gas without pre-igniting, or detonating. It would ping horribly on pump gas -- to the point where he was afraid of holing the pistons. As long as he put high-octane "race gas" in it, it ran like a Champ.

 

Many's the time (every time I saw him, as a matter of fact) that he said he wished his bike ran like mine, so he could ride wherever he wanted, like I do.

 

After a year of not being able to ride it beyond a few round-trip tankfuls of his only source for "race gas" (without his wife driving behind with "race gas" in their van, an experience that as far as I know only happened once ), he had stopped riding it altogether in frustration and disgust, and eventually sold it off at a loss, after having expended much time and wasted effort with the very best Professional dyno tuning and re-mapping (including timing) expertise available. By that time he had come around to a different point of view on the cause of the problem -- high comp pistons WERE the problem (his conclusion -- NOT MINE!). In his newly "educated" view, he would have much preferred stock pistons to start with. By this time, he realized why the previous owner had traded the bike in long before it was broken in. But by then, he was so emotionally distraught over the whole ordeal (effort level and expenses), that he didn't want to install stock pistons -- he just wanted the thing out of his sight.

 

Keep in mind, please, that this is with 91 RON California Ethan-o-crap gasoline. Depending on wot you can get, of course, YMMV. THIS IS NOT wot I would have done, but he never had the heads off for a look to see what (if any) head work may have been done. Proper head work can do a great deal to improve squish characteristics and flow with high-comp pistons, which may (or may not) have helped.

 

In any case, many seem to ignore the fact that higher-comp pistons put more stress and strain on the entire engine and drive train. Now for those who tend to sell bikes off before they're broken in (as did BOTH the first and second owners of this particular bike ), of course this would not be important. . .

 

There's a reason mfgr's spec. stock compression ratio's. Unless you know wot y'er doing, you could be making a mistake.

 

And to each his own. . .

[richard100t]

Well, yes.

 

WARNING! THE FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCES MAY NOT APPLY!

 

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS NECESSARILY WHAT ALWAYS HAPPENS, FOR GOD'S SAKE!

 

NO SUCH IMPLICATIONS ARE EITHER MADE OR INFERRED!!

 

-- BUT ALL STATEMENTS ARE 100% TRUE!

 

I'll simply attempt to provide a little "counterpoint" here to all those who will tell you that high-comp pistons are the dog's danglies -- and there are LOTS of 'em out there -- possibly more'n a few who've actually done it and don't regret it!!

 

HOWEVER:

 

Many who install high-comp pistons seem to believe that they're some kind of free, magic "bolt on horsepower". While it's certainly true that with proper mapping, tuning, and fuel, you will certainly lift power and torque curves substantially, there are trade-off considerations that are all too often overlooked by the uninformed.

 

I have a friend who bought a 2000 Sport with high-comp pistons already installed off a dealer showroom floor, who went thru a horrendous year-long litany of gruesome problems trying to get the bike into a rideable state of tune. The problem as he saw it at first was to make the bike's tuning compatible with available fuel, so as to get it to run on California pump gas without pre-igniting, or detonating. It would ping horribly on pump gas -- to the point where he was afraid of holing the pistons. As long as he put high-octane "race gas" in it, it ran like a Champ.

 

Many's the time (every time I saw him, as a matter of fact) that he said he wished his bike ran like mine, so he could ride wherever he wanted, like I do.

 

After a year of not being able to ride it beyond a few round-trip tankfuls of his only source for "race gas" (without his wife driving behind with "race gas" in their van, an experience that as far as I know only happened once ), he had stopped riding it altogether in frustration and disgust, and eventually sold it off at a loss, after having expended much time and wasted effort with the very best Professional dyno tuning and re-mapping (including timing) expertise available. By that time he had come around to a different point of view on the cause of the problem -- high comp pistons WERE the problem (his conclusion -- NOT MINE!). In his newly "educated" view, he would have much preferred stock pistons to start with. By this time, he realized why the previous owner had traded the bike in long before it was broken in. But by then, he was so emotionally distraught over the whole ordeal (effort level and expenses), that he didn't want to install stock pistons -- he just wanted the thing out of his sight.

 

Keep in mind, please, that this is with 91 RON California Ethan-o-crap gasoline. Depending on wot you can get, of course, YMMV. THIS IS NOT wot I would have done, but he never had the heads off for a look to see what (if any) head work may have been done. Proper head work can do a great deal to improve squish characteristics and flow with high-comp pistons, which may (or may not) have helped.

 

In any case, many seem to ignore the fact that higher-comp pistons put more stress and strain on the entire engine and drive train. Now for those who tend to sell bikes off before they're broken in (as did BOTH the first and second owners of this particular bike ), of course this would not be important. . .

 

There's a reason mfgr's spec. stock compression ratio's. Unless you know wot y'er doing, you could be making a mistake.

 

And to each his own. . .

Of course as Ratchet has stated this was only one single persons experience. I personally dont think theres been a good enough case made by those that have had good results to get me to buy them.

Of course if you're willing to spend lots of time & money to get that extra 10 to 15 hp its a free country.

I'm not saying that the pistons alone would get you that much, but in combination with a host of other pricey mods thats what you'll end up with. A v11 with maybe 95 or so rwhp would be more fun....is it $3000 plus more fun?