Rear suspension: Tonti vs spine

[beauchemin]

I almost bought a Tonti recently but the deal didn't happen. I've ridden a buddy's Tonti a couple of years ago, but did not push it very hard in the handling department.

 

Anyway here's the question: Is the spine frame rear suspension any better than the Tonti rear end? For example, I would like to compare vs a MkI, II, or III LeMans, or similar.

[Guest ratchethack]

Hoooboy, this'll be sure to start somethin'.....

 

Which is "better" - a '36 Aston Martin Ulster, or a '59 Lotus 11 LM?

 

I reckon it's an interesting question alright, but just a mite subjective....

 

Me, I'd pick the '36 Aston in a heartbeat, even though the Lotus'd run circles around it......

 

I've had a long-term goal of picking up a "barn fresh" LM III or some such for a resto project and I fully expect this to happen when the time is right - but far more importantly, when the bike itself is right. So I've given this some thought, and I'd also be interested in the perspectives of others. There are many hereabouts who not only have owned, but currently own both.....

 

I don't think either the Tonti frame or the spine frame are conceptually separable from their rear suspensions as they came from Mandello. Without any question, the Tonti frame itself is far more torsionally rigid. On this basis alone, the Tonti is clearly the superior design. Many's the Tonti swingarm that has been substantially gussetted in an attempt to make the swingarm more of a match to the vault-like rigidity of the frame. I've seen a few competent-looking Tonti conversions with cantilever swingarms that would seem to combine the benefits of both designs.

 

Both frames suffer from having the trans output shaft, and therefore the forward UJ farther rearward than ideal, necessitating a short swingarm. It's just a limitation of shaft-drivers. Then of course, there's the "boat anchor" bevel drive that's a substantial inherent chassis performance limitation in both cases.......

[guzziownr]

Ha, Ha ha -- Kidding, right?

 

Not kidding? O.K. Shortly after purchasing my V11 Sport I went for a ride with "Tonti" Tom LaNasa. About halfway through we switched bikes.

 

He rode my Sport, I rode his immaculate, spare no expense, 1000S. I liked his bike, it was, er, stable

 

What it lacked was power, brakes and handling. Dunno about rear suspension as I am not an expert.

 

If you want Tom's impressions his handle is Blackkat and he is on this board. He still has three Tontis to go with the Rosso he bought after riding my bike.

 

DW

 

Tom is smiling in this picture

[dlaing]

Sorry, no contest.

Parallel suspension wins hands down!

But, other aspects of the bikes could be compared...

[dlaing]

I have wished my Sport felt as relaxed and balanced as a Tonti, with a low center of gravity and longer wheel base.

I suspect the Breva and Griso have headed more into that direction.

I have wondered if putting the longer swingarm of a Quota on a spine, would give the bike better balance, more comfort and a more relaxed feel???

One would lose the paralever effect, but the torque jacking really is not that bad.

I love what Paul M. did with his swing arm.

I would have made it longer for touring, but he is going for sport, so what he did makes sense

[dlaing]

from

http://www.bikez.com/

V11Stone 3.5 inches rear travel

V11Naked 4.7 inches rear travel

[Baldini]

.... Is the spine frame rear suspension any better than the Tonti rear end?....

 

Yes. But, learn to ride a LM1-111 & shaft really isn't that limiting.

 

Tonti will ratchet up & lock the rear suspension under very heavy braking. That's the only thing I found a real problem.

 

Stock shocks & forks aren't good on LM 1/11/111's either & most are replaced or tweaked....not unlike the stock V11?

 

If you wanna know which you could ride faster then there's nothing much in it between a sorted LM1-111 & a good V11. V11 makes more power. Brakes are better (much better feel but Tonti Brembos have plenty power), but it is heavier. Flywheel is lighter (which probably affects behaviour as much as s/a change). As Ratchet says, Tonti frame is stiffer (it is a *kin work of art). Both are limited by heavy rear drive hung out back of short s/a. V11 isolates it from affecting suspension action but it's not really a problem on a smoothly ridden Tonti. You can bring a 18" wheel Tonti virtually to a stop in a straight line on the (linked) brakes - no hands. It is very stable. Riding position on a Tonti lets you lower & further over front wheel than V11, which is a huge help in planting front & getting it thru corners.

 

LM1-111 brakes, handles & goes. It can, with a little effort be set up to go very well. The V11 is a bit faster accelerating, & slightly better top speed but is bigger & softer. A LM1-111 can be a bit harsh & cramped, as Dave points out V11 has better suspension travel, ride is plusher it is more comfortable - but then a good Cali or Spada is pretty good too.

 

If you like Guzzis, you'd unlikely regret buying a good LM1-111 - or any other Tonti for that matter.

 

KB

[waspp]

 

If you wanna know which you could ride faster then there's nothing much in it between a sorted LM1-111 & a good V11. V11 makes more power. Brakes are better (much better feel but Tonti Brembos have plenty power), but it is heavier. Flywheel is lighter (which probably affects behaviour as much as  s/a change). As Ratchet says, Tonti frame is stiffer (it is a *kin work of art). Both are limited by heavy rear drive hung out back of short s/a. V11 isolates it from affecting suspension action but it's not really a problem on a smoothly ridden Tonti. You can bring a 18" wheel Tonti virtually to a stop in a straight line on the (linked) brakes - no hands. It is very stable. Riding position on a Tonti lets you lower & further over front wheel than V11, which is a huge help in planting front & getting it thru corners.

 

 

KB

90955[/snapback]

 

Yes what Baldini said. I often find myself going back to my Tonti like an old friend, the lower cg and riding position feels better in the corners. My T3 isn't stock, fittied with konis in the rear and it is very stable in the turns. I think they both handle well, but my chiken strips are much narrower on the tonti. I think you really should have one of each to compare and ride for yourself.

 

waspp

[Ballacraine]

I like both the Scura and the Tonti framed Cali for different reasons.

 

The Scura is surer footed and well planted, if a little tall in the saddle.

 

The Cali is softer lower and more forgiving. I like the lower seat height.

 

As both bikes are new (ish) they are both taut, which is good.

 

Actually, the Cali is a total hoot to ride now I have upgraded with a second front disc.

 

It is great to ride it as it shouldn't be ridden!

 

Nige.

[dean rose]

I like both the Scura and the Tonti framed Cali for different reasons.

 

The Scura is surer footed and well planted, if a little tall in the saddle.

 

The Cali is softer lower and more forgiving. I like the lower seat height.

 

As both bikes are new (ish) they are both taut, which is good.

 

Actually, the Cali is a total hoot to ride now I have upgraded with a second front disc.

 

It is great to ride it as it shouldn't be ridden! 

 

Nige. 

90971[/snapback]

 

Get a slightly used EV and have the best of both.

[mg spd rcr]

So All you guys that think a old tonti works better than a newer (98 to 05) California are not looking at what improvements the california has received a stiffer frame with upper and lower trannie brace a big plus, then the forks are light years better, same goes for brakes the rear swingarm is longer and works better. So it doesn't look like a LeMans I to V but it works better than all of them especailly if you mod the Cali like we have, And as an added bonus the cops pretty much leave you alone...since it's just a "crusier". I just bought the Scura I can see where it is going to be ultimately the best...but at moment tonti supplies the best feel and confidence. richr

[Murray]

Spine frame works better when pushing on. No if buts or maybe's.