Lash on worm and pinion?

[Martin Barrett]

I've done 2000 miles since my left wheel bearing totally failed. I'm getting occasional strange clucks from the rear end. Dreadful noise when rolled her backwards today. I don't think it was the rear brake grind as cleaned out last week but have done 1500miles and some wet weather.

 

I've put her on the shop stand and there is a little roughness and slight play moving the wheel sideways. indicating the bearings.

 

When I rotate the wheel there is almost 1cm of wheel movement at the tyre before all the slack is taken up and the drive shaft starts to move. Is this amount of play normal?

 

I'm considering my options:

 

Do I pull it apart myself sort out all the issues at the same time, have to get a copy of Guzziology does it have a generic idiots guide and does it include the V11 now.

 

Take it down my local workshop, They've done the last three tyre changes, and may have over torqued the spacer which has accelerated the bearing failure.

 

Take it to my supplying multi franchise dealer

 

Take it to a Guzzi dealer - though I wouldn't blame them if they wouldn't touch it.

 

My history of bearing failures/tyre change;

 

6000m found by supplier on tyre change

1200m local work shop tyre change bearing fine

1800m local work shop tyre change bearing replaced - detected play

22500m bearing failed and replaced by different local workshop as on the road

23000m tyre changed a my normal local work shop

24600 current millage

 

 

I'm off down to my local workshop, to get them to weld up the broken gear linkage. I'll discuss this with them. If the box is okay and it's just the bearings I'll try and get the spacer adjusted (got one on order) new bearings, if its the bevel box that me not going to Germany this weekend.

 

 

Any thoughts comments?

I'm tempted to pull it apart myself but obviously don't really know what I'm doing or have a manual.

[mike wilson]

1cm normal? I'd say it was rather small.....

 

With the wheel off, if you can get a lever into the bevel box (through a filler or level hole) and onto the ring gear, gently try to move it. You might be able to do the same thing with the wheel axle, in its normal place. Any apparent movement would indicate a rebuild to me. More likely (certainly in older machines) would be the bearings on the input shaft. Is this as easy to remove as on the Tonti machines? Again, play = at least a reshim.

 

Rebuilds are not that difficult but are also not something you can rush. What about getting a spare from Reboot? If it's in good nick you can use it and rebuild your original at your leisure. Sounds like a learning experience to me. 8-))

 

m

[Martin Barrett]

Thanks Mike.

Just back from the work shop, he recons its purely the wheel bearings. He didn't measure the spacer when he did the last tyre. Didn't want to hammer out the new bearings and damage them. Now they've got to come out will measure it up and shim with a washer if need be (ala BFG)

So I'm going to look up the relevent sizes for comparison and the torque figures (thanks Ratchet)

Then I'm going to clear the crap out of my garage so I can work on my Guzzi my self. As opposed to bodging in the driveway. And look after her as she deserves

[Guest Nogbad]

Then I'm going to clear the crap out of my garage so I can work on my Guzzi my self. As opposed to bodging in the driveway. And look after her as she deserves

91876[/snapback]

 

I can't be that far from you if you need a hand with it anytime.

[jrt]

The rear drive has lots of lash in it. I wouldn't be too concerned with that.

I am curious about the clicking noise you describe, though. Does it do this going forward/backward/both? You might want to check your ujoints?

I'd also drain the oil from the bevel drive through a strainer, and fish around with a magnet on a stick® in the bevel box....just in case, but I hope nothings wrong.

[Guest ratchethack]

The rear drive has lots of lash in it.  I wouldn't be too concerned with that.

With all due respect -- Correction, please! A correctly set-up bevel drive on the V-11 is set to ZERO lash. Properly adjusted, any detectable overall driveline lash is measured by the gap between shift dogs and their slots in the sliding muffs in the trans. This can be seen and measured directly by putting the bike in gear and rolling the bike forward and backward. The amount of movement will depend on what gear it's in.

 

If you've got any slop whatsoever between the pinion and crownwheel, you've got BIG problems and the box needs to be shimmed immediately, or you'll lunch the gearset!

[Guest Nogbad]

With all due respect -- Correction, please!  A correctly set-up bevel drive on the V-11 is set to ZERO lash.  Properly adjusted, any detectable overall driveline lash is measured by the gap between shift dogs and their slots in the sliding muffs in the trans.  This can be seen and measured directly by putting the bike in gear and rolling the bike forward and backward.  The amount of movement will depend on what gear it's in.

 

If you've got any slop whatsoever between the input shaft on the bevel drive and the crownwheel, you've got BIG problems and the box needs to be shimmed immediately, or you'll lunch the bevel gears!

91899[/snapback]

 

Pardon me, but if the box was correctly shimmed by Luigi in the beginning and the lash has arrived subsequently, wouldn't the clicking suggest that the bevel gears were at least half way through their hors d'oevres if not completely finished lunch and onto the cheeseboard?

[Guest ratchethack]

Pardon me, but if the box was correctly shimmed by Luigi in the beginning and the lash has arrived subsequently, wouldn't the clicking suggest that the bevel gears were at least half way through their hors d'oevres if not completely finished lunch and onto the cheeseboard?

Indeed it certainly could, depending of course on how long it'd operated in that condition.....

 

If it got into that condition by wear, rather than carrier bearings being somehow knocked out of their registers, of course, it'd have long since seen the last course and it's off to the loo........

 

I don't have the words to get technical on this, and in truth, I haven't ever had to shim my bevel box.......but I've read a pile of Roper's descriptions of doing it, to the point where I wouldn't hesitate to tackle it if the need arose.

 

Where's Pete lately??

 

I reckon he'd jump in - that is, unless he happens to be wrestlin' a rusty engine stud outta a Convert case or pullin' the lump on an Ambo......

[Guest ratchethack]

FWIW, here's Pete's write-up on GuzziTech's site:

 

http://www.guzzitech.com/RearDriveTear-Pete_R.html

[Martin Barrett]

Update:

Left bearing had collapsed. Measured up spacer and was coming up at 112.8. Putting it into the wheel seemed to be definatly shorter than the gap between the bearing seats. Couldn't measure that as calipers were too big.

Was able to find a suitable sized washer to act as an additional spacer. All back together seems okay on the stand.

 

The needle rollers in the right hand side have seen betterdays. Am I right in thinking that these only move in relation to supporting the bevel box as it rotates slightly as it travels up and down with suspension movemnt. I will need to replace this bearing. Hopefully it will last my trip to Germany, which is still on for the weekend.

[Guest Nogbad]

Update:

 

The needle rollers in the right hand side have seen betterdays. Am I right in thinking that these only move in relation to supporting the bevel box as it rotates slightly as it travels up and down with suspension movemnt. I will need to replace this bearing. Hopefully it will last my trip to Germany, which is still on for the weekend.

91916[/snapback]

 

Yes. Clean it grease it and forget it between tyre changes. Provided it hasn't disintegrated I doubt it matters a whole lot.

[Martin Barrett]

Yes. Clean it grease it and forget it between tyre changes. Provided it hasn't disintegrated I doubt it matters a whole lot.

91917[/snapback]

 

How many missing rollers makes disintergrated?

[Guest Nogbad]

How many missing rollers makes disintergrated? 

91919[/snapback]

 

Erm..... Provided the cage is intact and you don't have any adjacent missing rollers you might get away with a couple gone, but since the rollers are retained by the spring steel cage, I think if you have any missing rollers the bearing has bought the farm and you should replace it before taking that long trip.....

 

I assumed you just had a bit of rust and pitting to the rollers and raceways.

[pete roper]

Sorry, I've been away at the weekend and busy, real busy, since and simply haven't had time to reply to this. Somewhere, way back when, I did a V11 bevelbox strip photojournal and I *think* posted it up here. Itmay still be around?

 

Pete

[Martin Barrett]

Sorry, I've been away at the weekend and busy, real busy, since and simply haven't had time to reply to this. Somewhere, way back when, I did a V11 bevelbox strip photojournal and I *think* posted it up here. Itmay still be around?

 

Pete

91933[/snapback]

 

Thank you Pete,

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2384&hl= A bit of a queery thread, no one able to answer your questions.

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2391&hl= The thread with the pictures.