"Butter Smooth" Tranny

[Dr Gil]

I've been reading lately about new Japanese bike's "butter smooth shifting." This is some worlds away from what my '02 Le Mans offers. It requires slow, strong, determined shifting with quite a bit of "ca-chunk" between gears.

 

This being my first Guzzi and me being still somewhat unsure what to expect of it I don't know if I need to take action or simply learn to live with it. I'm not a racer. Slow shifts are not really a problem and I appreciate that gear changes are "felt" and positive.

 

I recently let a friend ride my Guzzi (he was VERY enthused) and he came back with questions about "false neutrals" (a problem I've never had but understand my bike's need for VERY positive shifting) and his enthusiasm seemed a bit dampened.

 

So is "less than subtle" shifting the norm for these bikes or are there adjustments to be made or do I need to start worrying about my clutch/tranny?

[mdude]

well, my experience is that it needs firm positive movements of the lever in order to avoid neutrals, and dont encourage fast racing-style shifts at all.

BUT: its certainly less clunky and a lot smoother than my old BMW R1150Rs gearbox and if you practice to only feather the clutch (pull it in two-three cms, not fully) the shifts get better and just snips into place.

[slug]

I've been reading lately about new Japanese bike's "butter smooth shifting."  This is some worlds away from what my '02 Le Mans offers.  It requires slow, strong, determined shifting with quite a bit of "ca-chunk" between gears. 

 

This being my first Guzzi and me being still somewhat unsure what to expect of it I don't know if I need to take action or simply learn to live with it.  I'm not a racer.  Slow shifts are not really a problem and I appreciate that gear changes are "felt" and positive.

 

I recently let a friend ride my Guzzi (he was VERY enthused) and he came back with questions about "false neutrals" (a problem I've never had but understand my bike's need for VERY positive shifting) and his enthusiasm seemed a bit dampened.

 

So is "less than subtle" shifting the norm for these bikes or are there adjustments to be made or do I need to start worrying about my clutch/tranny? 

92667[/snapback]

 

In my very limited experience, I'm pretty sure this is normal. Especially the 11 speed gearbox: 6 forward + 5 neutrals. If you suspect a problem, ask yourself: "Would a '65 Ford tractor make this noise?" If you answer yes, don't worry. Just top the gearbox off with some Redline Heavy, buy some earplugs and ride on. If you answer "Yes, but more like the tractor has just had a head-on collision with a nitro glycerine factory." then you might want to have it looked at.

 

My absolutely worthless

[Baldini]

Guzzi shift is unlike Jap boxes, & takes a bit of getting use to. Compared w Jap box V11 has very long lever throw - you have to move it quite a way to shift - if you only move it half way you can end up with false neutrals.

 

Lubing & adjusting the external shifter mechanism may help.

 

There is an eccentric pin held by a locknut on the gbox side plate. This controls the position/limits of travel of the plate on the end of the shift lever. You may find adjusting this helps. It is very instructive to look inside this cover to see how the change is effected - then you'll see why the action is the way it is.

 

I found Redline Heavy Shockproof oil helped action.

 

Mine shifts positively, rarely misses a gear except thru my bad technique. Lower gears are the more difficult esp around 3rd (Bento said "tird gear is not your friend" ) but not a real problem.

 

One of the ratio jumps ( 2 to 3 I think) is a bit long & that can cause problems where you ideally need something in between.

 

I find gearbox actually responds much better to quick, well timed, changes. On a recent trackday, trying hard, it did not miss one shift. I'll often fluff the odd one on a road ride. Slower, more deliberate changes are actually less easy. But used fast, focus & co-ordination of throttle, clutch (if used) & shift are everything. Hesitancy/laziness ruins good shifts. Of course, track shifts are only around 3 - 6, the easier end of the box!

 

Listen to it & it'll tell you - get a feel for lever/shift action (you can actually feel the seector working), but be prepared to change your approach...Concentrate on co-ordinating throttle/engine speed with shift/tranny & wheel speed - there's a lot of moving metal to get synched - Try giving it a good, quick, blip on downshifts - sometimes I find it necessary to blip the throttle a little on upshifts where I've been a bit slow & lazy too. If it feels good it is good - you should not have to apply strength to get it to work. If you do, then something is wrong either with the equipment or the way you're using it.

 

It'll never feel like a Jap box, but in it's own way it works fine.

 

Good luck.

 

KB

[v50man]

I think all you damn sissies need to spend a bit of time with the five speed that was standard on the Centauro/Daytonal/1100 Sport.

 

 

Following a day or two on that, you'd never again utter another bad word about the V11 six-speed.

 

 

Not my opinion -- a FACT!

[stogieBill]

I think all you damn sissies need to spend a bit of time with the five speed that was standard on the Centauro/Daytonal/1100 Sport.

Following a day or two on that, you'd never again utter another bad word about the V11 six-speed.

Not my opinion -- a FACT!

92681[/snapback]

 

 

I'll second that V50man! I used to think my Scura was rough as a cob compared to my ST1300A. But then I got a Daytona. Funny how much better the Scura is now.

 

Everything is relative.

[Tom M]

I've never missed a shift and my bike shifts better than my old 84 Honda 1100! I'm running Redline now but it shifted just as nice with the previous owners dino oil in the box. No complaints from me. I do suggest that you learn to preload the shifter with your toe if you want to snick off really quick shifts. My V11 will gladly do clutchless shifts using this technique too, but I don't see any reason for doing that on the street.

 

You guys who are getting lots of false neutrals may need to lower your shifter a bit relative to the footpeg.

 

FWIW old euro MX bikes used to have real long lever throws compared to the japanese bikes. A common trick that I used on my old Maico was to cut a 1/4" slice out of the middle of the shift lever then weld it back together. It made the shifting quicker but also required more effort.

[orangeokie]

My '03 LeMans shifts as smooth as my aprilia SL mille did. I've not experienced any problems at all. I've not ridden a jap bike for ages, but I did test ride a couple of new Triumphs (Daytona and Bonneville) and they were no better or worse.

[Dan M]

I've been reading lately about new Japanese bike's "butter smooth shifting."  This is some worlds away from what my '02 Le Mans offers.  It requires slow, strong, determined shifting with quite a bit of "ca-chunk" between gears. 

 

This being my first Guzzi and me being still somewhat unsure what to expect of it I don't know if I need to take action or simply learn to live with it.  I'm not a racer.  Slow shifts are not really a problem and I appreciate that gear changes are "felt" and positive.

 

I recently let a friend ride my Guzzi (he was VERY enthused) and he came back with questions about "false neutrals" (a problem I've never had but understand my bike's need for VERY positive shifting) and his enthusiasm seemed a bit dampened.

 

So is "less than subtle" shifting the norm for these bikes or are there adjustments to be made or do I need to start worrying about my clutch/tranny? 

92667[/snapback]

 

Gil,

 

The shifting gets better with mileage. How many miles do you have? A clean out of the box and change to Redline lubricant also help greatly, as does cleaning & lubing of the shift linkage. There are some other modifiactions that improve things even more if you're motivated.

 

Dan

[Steve G.]

I think all you damn sissies need to spend a bit of time with the five speed that was standard on the Centauro/Daytonal/1100 Sport.

Following a day or two on that, you'd never again utter another bad word about the V11 six-speed.

Not my opinion -- a FACT!

92681[/snapback]

I would agree after spending alot of time on my buddies '76 Lemans.

If the modern Japanese motorcycles have the benchmark on anything, it is the near perfection of their gearbox action. No other get close. And I would put modern BMW's at the back of the pack, modern bikes speaking.

Ciao, Steve G.

[docc]

Keeping the linkage tight and lubed , as Keith said, and running Redline makes a real difference.

 

Preloading the shifter is good medicine per Tom.

 

Often overlooked is the clutch and clutch action. Remember this was Guzzi's first hydraulic clutch. I find taking up the slack in the clutch lever as well as the shifter makes a HUGE difference in quick decisive shifts.

 

Compared to the Japanese boxes there is such a big difference in the mass of the components. If riding were ice skating the Jap bikes would be figure skaters and the Guzzi plays hockey. The moral: don't expect to do a nice clean triple Lutz with a hockey player.

[Dan M]

If riding were ice skating the Jap bikes would be figure skaters and the Guzzi plays hockey. The moral: don't expect to do a nice clean triple Lutz with a hockey player.

92705[/snapback]

 

 

That's a great analogy, I'll be using it. Thank you.

 

A friend of mine referred to his Ducati as a scalpel. I told him if that were the case then my MG was a cleaver.

[Guest ratchethack]

That's a great analogy, I'll be using it. Thank you.

 

A friend of mine referred to his Ducati as a scalpel. I told him if that were the case then my MG was a cleaver.

Good one.

 

One of my riding Pals thinks of his 900SS as a 2-wheeled Ferrari.

 

I think of my Guzzi as a 2-wheeled Kenworth on Formula 1 tires. . . . .

[quazi-moto]

I have to try that heavy shockproof oil. I've hit "false neutrals" on occasion on my '02 LeMans. It can happen if one is not fairly deliberate with the shifter. The worst part is the crunching involved trying to get it back in gear.

[DeBenGuzzi]

I have to try that heavy shockproof oil. I've hit "false neutrals" on occasion on my '02 LeMans.  It can happen if one is not fairly deliberate with the shifter. The worst part is the crunching involved trying to get it back in gear.

92880[/snapback]

I say give it a go, I have noticed a two fold improvement, better smoother shifts and almost a nil false neutral