scura is sick :-(

[pete roper]

German Guzzi Guru concluded after hearing the enigine run for about 2 senconds that the valveguides on the right where toast..... no further checks!?!? he claims al the v11's have worn valveguides even at very low milage

 

 

Ciao jasper

92847[/snapback]

 

Yes, some of them may, and some of them may have worn valve stems, and I wish I had x-ray vision with micrometer accuracy as well! Then I'd be able to make such incredibly rapid diagnoses too!

 

Sorry, but it smells like a poopy rat to me. I'm with Tex

 

Pete

[pete roper]

Just to add to that I can see absolutely no cause to diagnose a dangerously worn guide from a 2 second run on a dyno? I mean most Guzzis rattle a bit and for some reason most of 'em seem to loosen up the RH exhaust tappet earlier than the other three. Why? Heaven only knows! It could simply be the tappet clearance is too big causing it to rattle.

 

Certainly if you're in the middle of a transcontinental move but the bike is still running OK I wouldn't stuff around with it while you're preparing to leave! Once you're out here, (You're heading up to the Sunshine coast hinterland somewhere aren't you?) you can get it looked at and it will probably be cheaper than Europe too, at least the labour cost would be. There are a couple of Guzzi agents in Brisbane, check out the Guzzi website for locations. I don't know what they'd charge but for removing and servicing the heads, including K-lining the valve guides, a three angle cut of the seats, checking the seating pressures and compressibility of the springs etc. you'd probably pay about $800AU to me plus any parts required, (Gaskets, valves if needed, springs if needed, shims if needed etc.) my figures are probably in the ball park as I'd probably say that removing and replacing the heads would be about 4 hours and the actual head work, including the K-lines comes in at about $350. That would probably include GST too. I've got nice low overheads though, if you take it to a big flashy place with lots of bling in the showroom you'd probably have to pay more. I'm not trolling for business, I've got plenty on, just trying to give you some sort of idea of what you'd be likely to be up for if you decided to wait until you got to Oz.

 

I think it HIGHLY unlikely you will suffer a catastrophic failure like a dropped valve. I've seen big valve heads with guides with nearly a mm of slop in them and they still haven't spat the collets and dropped a valve. Yes, it's possible, but I think it very unlikely. Anyone else seen a big-block with a dropped valve of late? No, I thought not! It's extremely rare and usually only occurs on bikes with absurdly high mileages and a poor service history.

 

Pete

[mark.gilmore]

Hi..

 

. After 2 seconds Hartmut (german guzzi guru) diagnosed worn valveguides at the right cilinder! not so good news!

I don't think it is a problem yet as the bike doesn't use oil but it needs solving in the near future. So any ideas on improving this would be really appreciated

 

Ciao

 

jaP

 

Hi Jasper

 

This guy's got to be a Wizzard.You all must have been down on your knee's giving him a bow for sh*t to come out of his mouth like that.

If the bike is not blowing smoke when you back off the throttle I can't see any probs.If there are gaps between your guides and valves, oil will be sucked in through the gaps causing smoke when you back off.That was my experience on my 78 Bonny.put some K Lines in but they didn't handle the heat after 5000km I found myself replacing them with new guides. A Head Recon man told me K Lines are good for watercooled motors only, {on cars} not air.He wouldn't put them on a watercooled bike either.

So bring that baby down under and I got a couple of good rides that will loosen them guides up a bit more.Cheers GILLY

[pete roper]

If the bike is not blowing smoke when you back off the throttle I can't see any probs.If there are gaps between your guides and valves, oil will be sucked in through the gaps  causing smoke when you back off.That was my experience on my 78 Bonny.put some K Lines in but they didn't handle the heat after 5000km I found myself replacing them with new guides. A Head Recon man told me K Lines are good for watercooled motors only, {on cars} not air.He wouldn't put them on a watercooled bike either.

So bring that baby down under and I got a couple of good rides that will loosen them guides up a bit more.Cheers GILLY

92916[/snapback]

 

Two things, as an ex-Triumph owner myself I can tell you that the relationship between the valve stem length, the guide length, the angle of the valves and the positioning of the oil feeds and the delivery patter around the guides is completely different on a Triumph twin and a Guzzi. Sorry but your experience with the K-lines in the Triumph have absolutely no relevance to the Guzzi but since I've also known them to be used quite successfully in pommy twins I'd have to question their installation and/or the integrity of the guides into which they were installed.

 

As for your 'Head Recon' man? A lot of head shops will only use K-lines on cast iron guides. I have no idea why. I suppose it's just inate conservatism of people who either don't like to or are scared to experiment. He's welcome to his opinion but I'm sorry, it's just plain wrong.

 

Pete

[mark.gilmore]

Two things, as an ex-Triumph owner myself I can tell you that the relationship between the valve stem length, the guide length, the angle of the valves and the positioning of the oil feeds and the delivery patter around the guides is completely different on a Triumph twin and a Guzzi.

Pete

92925[/snapback]

Hi Pete,Nice to have someone with experience on both motors ,thats just what I was told,someones opinion.

but those were the chain of events that happened.I didn't put new valves in because the K Line guy did not say they were required.I personaly think thats where it all went wrong.

As for the above valve stem length,angle of valves,oil feed position ect,doe's this make them that different.wouldn't the Guzzi still blow smoke when backing off if the valves or guides were on there way out.

Anyway, my Scura is from down your way you may know the bike,I bought it at Geco with 4000km great machine.

cheers Gilly

ps I reading your info on here Pete and all the others to, keep up the good work

[badmotogoozer]

Most of the recommendations on this site I take with a grain of salt. I'm inherently skeptical of anything on the misinformation highway.

 

There are a handful of folks here who I do listen to and take every word as gospel.

 

That's why I run nothing but 100% synthetic Thai yak fat in my bikes.

 

Rj

[pete roper]

                                  As for the above valve stem length,angle of valves,oil feed position ect,doe's this make them that different.wouldn't the Guzzi still blow smoke when backing off if the valves or guides were on there way out.

Anyway, my Scura is from down your way you may know the bike,I bought it at Geco with 4000km great machine.

                                                 

93007[/snapback]

 

 

Yes, it does. the Triumph guides, even more so than most pommy twins are much shorter than Guzzi guides in relation to the valve stem length. This has several unfortunate side effects. Firstly the valve is less fully supported so it will tend to thrash about a fair bit which will promote wear. Secondly the long, exposed, stem between the head of the valve and the guide means that they are lousy at dumping heat so the valves generally run hotter, (The shortness of the guide exacerbates this too.) so once again wear is greater. Thirdly the way the oil gets flung off the rockers in a Trumpy means that more of it is likely to end up arond the top of the truncated guides meaning that it's more likely to get dragged down the guide and create smoke.

 

Guzzi guides sit quite well proud of the surface of the head and the head itself slopes at an angle of 45 degrees so oil runs off and drains quickly and effectively rather than trying to pool near the guide. Oil is also pumped out of either end of the rockers and fed around by splash but the majority of it will stick to the rocker carriers by surface tension and only a minority of it will probably get flung around. Certainly not an awful lot seems to reach the tips of the rockers and valves and this can be seen by the prominent wear marks on most Guzzi valve tips and grooves worn in the valve ends of rockers.

 

Consequently even with valve guides that are completely 'Donald Ducked' Guzzi will rarely smoke! If you do detect anything it will usually be when the throttle is whacked open after decelerating on the over-run. Then you may well get a small puff of smoke but constant smoking, (And even this is usually only noticed at idle at a standstill!) is usually only apparent if there is something seriously wrong with a piston like broken up ring-lands or smashed rings, or the oil control ring is so worn you can drive a Mack truck through the end gap!

 

As for your Scura I probably have seen it. There was a young fellow down here who bought one and then very early in the piece had a get-off somewhere near the lake in Canberra. He was adamant that there was something seriously amiss with the suspension but when I rode it I honestly couldn't find anything too horribly scary with it but I think he thought I was and idiot because I couldn't wave a magic wand and make it handle like an RGV, (well, he was right about the idiot part! ) Is that the one? Did it come with a spare, repaired, tailpiece? If so it's probably the same bike. anyway, if you're in the area drop in. Best to phone first as I'm not alays at the shop.

 

Pete

[mike wilson]

Most of the recommendations on this site I take with a grain of salt.  I'm inherently skeptical of anything on the misinformation highway.

 

There are a handful of folks here who I do listen to and take every word as gospel.

 

That's why I run nothing but 100% synthetic Thai yak fat in my bikes. 

 

Rj

93047[/snapback]

 

You _do_ know that knockoff Thai Yak fat is inferior to genuine Mongolian Yak fat and needs the change intervals halved?

[Alex-Corsa]

Anybody heard about this before or has an opinion about this ?

 

I don't think it is a problem yet as the  bike doesn't use oil but it needs solving in the near future. So any ideas on improving this would be really appreciated

 

Ciao

 

 

 

Yes I have heared this before on some new Cali's. I had mine valve set changed at 45K miles (though mine is a sporti 1100 '98 model) and that perhaps happened more due to wrong air-filtering than anything else. Perhaps at yours too, think about it, is it everything OK with the air filter?

 

At the time a have 'paniked' a bit an since I was on a travel i changed tham a once, though that titanium valve set (can be found on Agostini) is very interesting for me

It would be rational to check your valve clearences in less miles than before (to the perticular valve head with the 'problem' )And avoid too high RPM

[mark.gilmore]

As for your Scura I probably have seen it. There was a young fellow down here who bought one and then very early in the piece had a get-off somewhere near the lake in Canberra. He was adamant that there was something seriously amiss with the suspension but when I rode it I honestly couldn't find anything too horribly scary with it  but I think he thought I was and idiot because I couldn't wave a magic wand and make it handle like an RGV, (well, he was right about the idiot part! ) Is that the one? Did it come with a spare, repaired, tailpiece? If so it's probably the same bike. anyway, if you're in the area drop in. Best to phone first as I'm not alays at the shop.

 

Pete

93099[/snapback]

 

Hi again Pete

 

Funny you mention that, when I had an off myself, I did a bit of work on it to get it back on the road,{While I waited 6 to 12 months for parts} just cosmetic,mirrors and crap like that,the tail got cracked .I stripped it back with paint stripper and there was about 700 {7} coats of paint.

As for suspension there is a wobble @ 190kmh that I am going to solve one day,but I don't use that speed very often , just knowing it's there, and not right, is a bit of a worry.If you have any suggestions, I'm open to them.

Thanks for the info. GILLY