Power Commander tuning

[Tom M]

Quick question: My bike has a power commander with a custom map done for the previous owner. It pings in the 5k rpm range under load at >50% throttle. Runs great otherwise. I have the map and the software, was wondering if I should just boost the values in the 5k rpm range by some arbitrary number to get rid of the pinging? What exactly are the numbers anyway? I know 0 = no change to stock map, does a 2 = 2% richer than stock, 5 = 5%, etc?

 

Bike setup: 2002 LeMans, factory Ti exhaust, race ECU, stock crossover, stock airbox, K&N air filter. I've had the bike for about 3 months.

 

Background: I asked the previous owner if he had any pinging and he said NEVER! He told me to find another gas station, don't lug it, and give it the italian tune up. I did switch gas stations (always 93 octane) and I did a de-carbon procedure on the cylinders that I've had good success with on cars. It still pings. I don't lug it. FWIW the plugs looked rich when I changed them

 

Some other curious bits of data are the PO told me the cylinders were independently mapped, but both the map that I got on diskette from him and the matching map loaded on the bike only had one fuel table, not two. Also, the notes in the diskette file said "2002 LeMans, factory Ti exhaust, race ECU, stock crossover, stock airbox, STOCK AIR FILTER

 

Other than the pinging I think the bike runs great. Any suggestions on tweaking the PC to get rid of the ping would be greatly appreciated!

[richard100t]

Did you check the gap in the spark plugs? Its a small thing but important. Btw its .7mm in my manual.

[OldButNotDead]

My understanding is that the values in the boxes are the percentage changes in duration of the fuel squirt the injectors deliver. My first custom map had a single fuel table and pinged with hard roll-ons. Using the "Accelerator pump" feature helped, but didn't completely eliminate this. This feature is available as a free download for the PC III USB. I think my settings were ~70% sensitivity for 15 revs.

 

If individual cylinder mapping was done, there should be 2 fuel tables. I had a second map with individual cylinder tuning done when I recently changed the exhaust system. The tables are quite different. It's very hard to make the bike ping now; it can be done, but it's not easy. The shop that did the individual cylinder mapping for your bike should still have that file on their computer; maybe the PO would be willing to ask for that copy?

[DeBenGuzzi]

I would download the map online that has the K&N filter and just look at it in that range to see if you could change a couple numbers and remove the ping. I loaded that exact map unaltered myself and have a hard time getting it to ping now runs like a top but the gas milage went down to about 30-35 instead of the 35-40 I was getting stock.

I don't have the MG Ti's but I wish I did. Compare some maps and see what numbers you need to affect to get it right

[Desdinova]

I have had some experience with my LeMans using a Power Commander.

 

- First, to find out what map you actually have, hook up the computer to the bike and do not start, but just flip on the power and turn the key. This will send whatever is on the bike to your computer. If it doesn't (I actually have this feature turned off) you can just click "get map" from the software. I would never trust some file someone gave me. Get it from the bike.

 

- Being that you bought the bike used, and recently, I would save the onboard map locally, and then I would bypass the Power Commander. Just unplug it (make sure the power is off) and run the stock ECU (or in your case the race ECU). The bike should run pretty good. The reason for this step is to ensure the bike has nothing major out of whack that the PC is masking. I had this problem and the PCIII is a powerful unit that can "seem" to fix a lot of things.

 

- If you have a set of mercury tubes, I'd check to see that the carbs are balanced. The PCIII can mask this too, especially if the cylinders were done separately.

 

- Anyway, if all seems ok, except for lack of any performance increase, just hook it back up.

 

- As others have said... clean and gap your plugs.

 

- Now for the trick. So you think at 5K there may be an issue. Using the buttons on the power commander, increase the mid range by 2 bars. You can get the manual online here if you don't have it. http://www.powercommander.com/manuals/User_Manual_6.pdf Remember to wait 15 to 20 seconds after making a change for the PCIII to "save" the change.

 

Anyway, take it for a spin. If the problem is worse or better you know you are on the right track. If worse, then drop it 2 bars below 0 and see what happens. If nothing happens either way, try this on the high-range bars. You get the idea.

 

This method is simple because you can take the bike out, and if you want to make a change, just pop the seat, change the setting, and jump back on without returning to the garage hooking up the computer again etc...

 

If this actually fixes the issue... then you're done.

 

As far as tweaking the map with the software, which you may still want to do, it will take some trial and error. I'd recommend, with the bike off but hooked up, make little chalk marks on the throttle where 5%, 10% 20% 30% 40% throttle are, unless you can safely strap the laptop to the bike when you test ride.

 

Based on "factory Ti exhaust, race ECU, stock crossover, stock airbox, K&N air filter" I really can't see what you would gain from tuning the cylinders separately if that's what they did. WHen you get the map from the bike, check to see if there is a difference in the two cylinders at all. If there is no difference, or nothing significant, why bother? If you were running new cams, pistons, crossover, open air box, etc etc... then maybe.. But this is just my opinion.

 

Also, make sure to test drive after any changes. One factor besides throttle position and rpm, is load. A test drive is important.

 

A couple of notes.... Don't let the bike overheat when sitting. Also, when you take your test rides... and in making adjustments, make sure the bike is up to full operating temp.

 

That's my opinion. I had some strangeness on my bike and could have saved myself a lot of time and effort if I had done the above steps BEFORE getting the bike Dyno'd. It was just running a little rough, and figured it was because the PCIII had only been adjusted manually, and the map was from some download, so I figured I'd put in on the Dyno and get it max'd out. Turns out the PCIII had nothing to do with the running rough problems. My carbs weren't balanced and I had an intake leak.

[dlaing]

and the matching map loaded on the bike only had one fuel table, not two. 

93090[/snapback]

I only have the PCIII serial, but looking at the trim tutorial for the PCIII USB

http://www.powercommander.com/tut_download.shtml

There is no mention that it creates a second viewable table.

It appears that to view the trim you must select a cell than go to the menu bar to Power Commander Tools and then to Cylinder Trim Values.

But I am not sure if selecting the cells lets you modify the trim for each cell

From their FAQ

# Individual cylinder adjustment

All PCIII USB units have a "cylinder trim" adjustment feature that allows you to "offset" fuel to one or more cylinders. Additionally, for advanced users, the PCIII USB allows individual cylinder mapping. Now each cylinder can be mapped individually throughout the entire rpm/throttle position range.

Does that mean that previously the cylinder trim effected all cells and not just the selected cell????

[dlaing]

FWIW

The pinging on my tuning link tuned bike took about an increase ranging from 6 to 10 in a few cells around the effected ping zone that was about the same RPM as yours, but at greater throttle percentage.

 

Looking for better, I went to tuneboy and reduced the ignition timing.

[Tom M]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. As for the plugs, I put in new freshly gapped plugs after I did my decarbon procedure.

 

Dlaing: If I'm cruising at 50% or more throttle in a high gear or going up a steep hill, then I open it up it will ping, so we may have had the same issue. In my PC software under the tools menu there is a "promote map to advanced" feature that displays two identical fuel tables for me.

 

 

OBND: I contacted the shop and he said he didn't have the file (or he didn't want to look for it) so I downloaded directly from the bike. I thought about trying the accelerator pump feature but it seems to me that I need to richen the mixture for more than a few revs.

 

Desdinova: I did download the map directly from my bike and it matched the map I got on diskette (I used the map compare feature and also visually verified that they match). Thanks for the tips. I don't have a set of mercury sticks, will see if I can find some. It looks like I won't be able to experiment on the bike for a while because of the weather.

 

Ben: I didn't find any maps for bikes with the race ecu on the PC site but I just found one for an 03 Lemans on guzzitech. I'll compare it to mine and see if they're similar except for the 5k rpm range.

 

Thanks again and any more suggestions are welcome!

[Dr Gil]

This seems an opportune time for me to ask a stupid question.

 

I too, have a similiar pinging (or pinking) issue. I too, have a PC III with a map that Todd at MPH Cycles installed in it for me after I gave him my bike's specifics when I purchased the PC.

 

The bike runs wonderfully with the exception of that ping. I have a motorcycle dealership (Honda) 150 miles away from me that will dyno and set my Power Commander. Can I expect this to cure the ping problem? Will this give me the "perfect" setting for my bike?

[Kiwi Dave]

- Now for the trick.  So you think at 5K there may be an issue.  Using the buttons on the power commander, increase the mid range by 2 bars.  You can get the manual online here if you don't have it. http://www.powercommander.com/manuals/User_Manual_6.pdf  Remember to wait 15 to 20 seconds after making a change for the PCIII to "save" the change.

 

Be aware that any adjustments that you make to the power commander settings by the three buttons are not reflected in the map that is communicated with the computer, but is effectively "on top" of any adjustments that the map provides.

 

So it should IMHO be seen as a temporary experimental setting, the map should be the final setup as it can be saved and recalled at will.

 

Has the bike been on a dyno? This takes a lot of the guesswork out of all the possibilities.

 

My

[Tom M]

HA! I think I fixed it! I bumped some of the values in the map up in my "ping zone" from 2 to 6 points based on a map from a similarly equipped bike that I found on Guzzitech and the pinging seems to be gone. Also I checked around the intake boots for any vacuum leaks with an unlit propane torch at idle and the rpms didn't budge so I think I'm air leak free.

 

Kiwi Dave: the map on my bike was done on a dyno for the previous owner. The PO said it didn't ping for him but based on the "stock air filter" note in the map, and the fact that the PO installed a K&N, I'm going to guess that the pinging might have been caused by the freer flowing air filter.

 

Dr Gil: IMO if the guys at the dyno shop know what they're doing you theoretically should get a "perfect" map that's optimized for your bike, and it should not ping anymore. As I understand it from reading the forums you or they should balance the throttle bodies, calibrate the throttle position sensors, have new correctly gapped plugs, freshly adjusted valves, and a clean air filter as a baseline before creating a custom map on the dyno. I'm sure if you search here or Guzzitech you can find more information. That said, a few tweaks to my map in the "ping zone" seems to have fixed my problem, and I didn't spend a dime

[Dr Gil]

Congrats Tom!

 

...and I like the "unlit" propane torch check for the boots. I'd never heard of that one before and it makes great sense.

 

I have made or had all the adjustments that you mentioned done recently to my bike...I guess it's time to ride the dear Le Mans over the mountain to the dyno shop and get it dialed in...hopefully achieving the same results that you did.

[Desdinova]

Good on'ya. Glad you nailed it.

[DeBenGuzzi]

see, sometimes I have good ideas!!!! actually I had a similar problem and thats how I cured it without going past my tech capabilities.

 

youre welcome!!!

 

I k now I know you did all the work tho.

[Tom M]

Thanks again for the suggestion Ben.

 

I find it strange that my map is VERY different from the similarly equipped '03 LeMans map that I looked at. I know they added the crossover pipe by the alt cover in '03, but I would think the maps would be closer than they are given that we both have the "race" ECU that comes with the Ti silencer kit.

 

Does anyone know if there was a different base map for 03+ race ECU's?

 

Doc,

If the guys that you're going to for a custom map have been doing this for a while and have a good reputation, I think it would be a great investment if you plan on keeping the bike and if you don't plan on doing any more modifications in the near future. You might as well get the most from your !