Sloppage sheet prototype?

[Guest Nogbad]

Before we all go mad making and fitting plates twixt block and sump pan, has anyone looked at the oil level vs the plate height to ensure that the plate is in the right place relative to the oil to make a difference? Last time I had my pan off I wondered whether the oil might even cover the joint in normal operation, and this would put the plate below the oil level.

 

Personally, I think a better idea would be to relocate the pickup point. This could be done with a simple shroud over the strainer provided a good seal to the oil pump suction tube could be achieved. Otherwise, a hanging pickup could be arranged on a tube permanently fixed into the pump spigot as cars use. It surely wouldn't be too difficult to shorten, drill and tap the spigot and make up a suitable "S" shaped tube with a strainer on the end.

[luhbo]

I understood that actually hard accelerating brings the light on. With a different location of this sucker the light would come every time you have to break. At least the engine wouldn't be under such high loads.

 

Hubert

[Ballacraine]

Before we all go mad making and fitting plates twixt block and sump pan, has anyone looked at the oil level vs the plate height to ensure that the plate is in the right place relative to the oil to make a difference? Last time I had my pan off I wondered whether the oil might even cover the joint in normal operation, and this would put the plate below the oil level.

 

 

I wouldn't think that would matter.

 

The plate would still do the job of keeping sufficient oil where it is needed.

 

Nige.

[Guest ratchethack]

Before we all go mad making and fitting plates twixt block and sump pan, has anyone looked at the oil level vs the plate height to ensure that the plate is in the right place relative to the oil to make a difference? Last time I had my pan off I wondered whether the oil might even cover the joint in normal operation, and this would put the plate below the oil level.

Nog, while everybody's focused on this, myself included, it's a good time to get all of these kinds of valid thoughts out on the table and where possible, clarified. This is a good one, IMHO. I think Hubert's point is a valid one also. And BTW - good thinking Nige! While I haven't yet thought to put the dipstick into the block whilst the sump was off, by eyeballing it with dipstick alongside the front of the engine, it appears that the midpoint oil level on the dipstick is about an inch below the sump spacer/block joint. Relative to this, the sump spacer/block joint appears to me to be just about as ideal a spot to place a horizontal baffle as can be had.

 

BTW, I don't think it's as if anyone's going mad here with a "ready, fire, aim!" approach! Pete and many many others have run these plates on Guzzis for years - in some cases for decades. That's what I meant in an earlier post by wanting a plate that would comfortably be expected to pass "sea trials". . . . or at least be based on designs that HAVE.

 

Personally, I think a better idea would be to relocate the pickup point. This could be done with a simple shroud over the strainer provided a good seal to the oil pump suction tube could be achieved. Otherwise, a hanging pickup could be arranged on a tube permanently fixed into the pump spigot as cars use. It surely wouldn't be too difficult to shorten, drill and tap the spigot and make up a suitable "S" shaped tube with a strainer on the end.

Yeah, I thought about this for quite awhile too, including the design of a moving pickup that would shift fore/aft with braking/accelerating. IMHO the KISS Principle applies here in spades, any added complexity here carrying exponentially increasing high risk of severe carnage.

 

After reading the history on this in so many posts both here and elsewhere, I still think the horizontal baffle/slosh plate idea, coincidentally located right where it's most convenient to put it and where it evidently works best, accomplishes the major goal of keeping the pickup buried under all likely conditions, and does it very effectively. Beyond that, it also carries an added function of diminishing drag on the crank by keeping the bulk of the sump oil isolated, free from being drawn up into the maelstrom around the crank, and thereby imparting at least partial benefits of a dry sump design.

 

Just thinkin' out loud again. Best think at least twice and install the new plate only once . . . .

[Greg Field]

Nog:

 

With the dipstick screwed in, the "full" mark is just below where the sloppage plate will be. The plate isn't a perfect solution, but it looks to me like it will help.

[dlaing]

How about the sump extenders here

http://www.mgcycle.com/oil.html

Will they work on the v11 sixspeeds?

[pete roper]

How about the sump extenders here

http://www.mgcycle.com/oil.html

Will they work on the v11 sixspeeds?

 

The sump spacer pictured below the V sump is the *standard* sump extension that can be fitted to all oil filter eaquipped models prior to the Mk III LeMans which had one of them fitted ex-factory as did all subsequent models up until the 1100 Calis.

 

This is the item that is fitted NOT to increase oil capacity but to increase the crankcase volume to help lower pressurisation and windage problems and keep the oilfurther from the crank.

 

Fitting one to a 'Broad Sump' model would be possible but also fairly pointless, ou'd also find that it would lower the 'Broad' part of the sump to such an extreme that you'd find that going round anything but the gentlest of bends you'd start grinding away the edges of the sump! I don't think it would in any way affect the oil surge problem unless you chose to fit one and then grossly over-fill the sump.

 

Pete

[dlaing]

I don't think it would in any way affect the oil surge problem unless you chose to fit one and then grossly over-fill the sump.

 

Pete

That is kind of what I was thinking

I figured if it lowered the oil an inch from the sump you could make a compromise and instead lower it half an inch.

 

The other unit has a built in windage tray and the external filter, which would be a bonus....but the price is getting up there and your point that the cornering clearance could be an issue does trouble me, not because I am fast, but because my bike is kind of on the low side of the stock configuration....as it should be IMHO

Probably a good solution for the strictly touring bikes.

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

PS

One other idea for the windage tray:

I have a hell of a time balancing my bike with one hand while managing to screw the dipstick in straight. time and tiime again, when I start threading it in, the stick dips prematurely, skewing my reading.

If the windage tray guided the stick away from the premature dip, that would be a BONUS!

Any opinions about that?

Am I the only spaz in the house

[jrt]

I have a hell of a time balancing my bike with one hand while managing to screw the dipstick in straight. time and tiime again, when I start threading it in, the stick dips prematurely, skewing my reading.

If the windage tray guided the stick away from the premature dip, that would be a BONUS!

Any opinions about that?

Am I the only spaz in the house

 

Man, I hope so. 2 possible solutions- put the bike on a center stand or track stand, or put a new mark on the dipstick for 'full' while the bike is leaned over.

[Guest Nigelstephens]

It looks like every one is wanting one. I have a Sporti (97) but never seen a red light when on the move.

How necessary are these sloppage sheets?

 

Please educate me?

[Guest Nogbad]

It looks like every one is wanting one. I have a Sporti (97) but never seen a red light when on the move.

How necessary are these sloppage sheets?

 

Please educate me?

 

They aren't. It's an example of what I call "Guzzichondria"

[Blackkat]

Pete,

 

Count me in for one.

 

thanks,

Tom

[Allan1956]

Well I better get one too Pete.

Otherwise when I pass away and my estate tries to sell off the LeMans to pay the wake bill no one will believe it is an original VII cause it didn't have a "Roper Plate" when everyone knows that it seems all VII's worldwide have them

 

Thanks, for the work in advance.

Allan

[Greg Field]

Dave:

 

Check your oil by slipping the dipstick into the hole but not engaging the threads. Yes, the factory manual says to thread it in, but the manual is wrong. Doing it this way reduces the likelihood of ever seeing the flickering oil light because the oil level will be higher to start. This will mean oil changes of 4 quarts or more.

 

As for Guzzichondria, I'm not supposed to worry when my oil pressure goes to 0 and stays there for several seconds? (The oil level was halfway between full and add, as checked by the method described above, when the pressure went to 0 on a drag start.) Or even better: I'm not supposed to plumb in an oil gauge to find out if the flickering oil light is really problem at all?

 

There's also a syndrome called "head in the sand" at work among Guzzisti.

[txrider]

My only reservation about adding this plate is that as I envision it this will mean an arrangement of sandwiching the plate so one has sump-gasket-new plate-gasket-block to seal when changing filters or dropping the sump for cleanout. That isn't a big deal but it is a consideration. Pales of course to the possibility of starving engine for oil during hard acceleration.

Put me down for one, please, Pete.

I'd sure like one of the Havens to wade in on this to get their perspective.