Guest ratchethack Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 We have an entire nation obsessed with firearms on this side of the water. Only with great difficulty can one find television programming or Hollywood film that does not feature guns as a central theme. Computer games created for children share this obsession. I would regard this fascination with weapons as a sign of mental illness. Unfortuantely, one that is ubiquitous, and shows no indication of abatement. Where I too can enjoy marksmanship, I cannot think of a single reason for anyone non-military to own a handgun. Nor would I consider a military rifle to be very useful for paper targets. I was once told by a med school student, that not far from where I grew up, a coroners report once listed a gunshot wound to the head as "died of natural causes". If true; Not a very comforting thought... Vintagegear, as I mentioned, I have a number of guns and go to the range occasionally. I have a number of self-defense guns and a number of rifles. If you consider this insane and obsessive behavior you can certainly do so, but I beg to differ. If you were right, it would mean that most of our entire Nation going back to before we were a nation were insane and obsessive people. Most of the people I know who are just like me with regard to guns either hunt occasionally, or like me, occasionally enjoy target shooting. We do not dress up in camo's like Rambo and play war games or have secret meetings in the woods planning revolutions. We don't obsess over guns and dream about them. I can go months without a single thought about guns until I get a call from a friend who wants to go to the range to keep in practice. Whether you understand this or not, we have guns just like our fathers and their fathers before them did back as far as anyone knows, and we are not "fascinated" by guns. Now what if it turns out that by responsible ownership of our guns as a Nation, crime rates dropped significantly compared to Nations who are not allowed to own weapons, saving thousands of lives and improving the quality of life for all by deterring crime for everyone -- including those who don't wish to own guns? Would THIS be a reason to own guns? What if it turns out that we could REVERSE an up-trend in crime just by responsible ownership of guns? Well, my friend, whether you are aware of it or not, or believe it or not, this is exactly the case right here and now where you and I both live. No, you will NOT read about it in the paper or see it on the evening news. As mentioned in an earlier post, half of the States in the US have either completed or are now in the process of passing new legislation to open up former restrictions on legal gun ownership by Citizens. They REASON they've been doing this over the period of the last 10 years, whether you know it or not or choose to believe it or not, is that in recent decades there has been a great preponderance of hard scientific evidence from the long-term scientific studies that I've been talking about that shows that crime rates have dropped and are continuing to drop as a result. Doubt it? Again may I suggest More Guns, Less Crime, by John R. Lott, Jr. It contains a summary of the long-term, comprehensive studies that are the basis of the legislative trends that are encouraging Citizens to educate themselves and defend themselves responsibly. The process taking place now is discussed in simple, clear terms backed by the most extensive hard science ever conducted. Please do not tell me all about what this book is and what it isn't without having read it. There is of course always lots of idiocy that follows in the wake of Hollywood and media propagandists who are certainly and truly obsessed. I would look there for your "mental illness" WRT guns. Despite their manufactured sound bytes such as "the rising gun culture", we have an entire Nation of people who are not led by or dictated to by popular delusions created in Hollywood. I really couldn't care less about the Popular Kulture image that Hollywood has created around guns. Educated and knowledgeable gun owners are acting far more sanely than people who don't have a clue what they're talking about and spouting off accordingly.
Guzzirider Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 The second picture is how we amuse ourself of a weekend BURN THE WICKERMAN! I guess finding a virgin is that much more difficult these days?
mike wilson Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 This (suprisingly?) seems to be a reasonable representation of the situation in the UK. The statistics at the end are interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_..._United_Kingdom m
dlaing Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 The second picture is how we amuse ourself of a weekend BURN THE WICKERMAN! That is contributing to global warming!!!
dhansen Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 I don't think the issue of gun ownership, one way or the other, is the cause of the high criminal death rate in the USA. The problem lies in the basic nature of our society. We are still a young nation populated by immigrants and decendants of immigrants who were for whatever reason not satisfied with life in their native lands and who took aggressive action to change their futures. This was a wild land where survival depended on bold and decisive action, more often than not backed up by a gun of some sort. A peaceful, nonviolent sort of individual wouldn't have made it very far west. Even in more recent years when a gun was not a necessary tool for basic survival I think we still attract the type of individals who have a strong desire to to better there place in life and aren't afraid to get up and go get it. Opportunity for all is one of the biggest features of life in America so long as you are aggressive enough to go out and get it. Don't get me wrong here because having that type of population, attitude and opportunity is part of what makes this country so great. But I also think it breeds the sort of mentality that in some sick way makes so many idiots have so little respect for the rights and lives of those around them. I think society in Europe has matured and for the most part, risen above the shoot from the hip attitude still rampant in the USA. Until more Americans lose the I've got mine and to hell with everyone else attitude (too often gained by the loss of someone else) we will continue to have higher crime and criminal death rates than the rest of the world. I'm not advocating we adopt a Social or Communist form of government but I think we need to find a way to provide a greater sense of security for our citizens in their daily lives to see the statistic change. Oh, and while I'm at it, throw Bush to the wolves before every man, woman and child in the rest of the world hates us for the terrible position he's put this country in. I don't know, maybe its the heat today.................
Tom M Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 I'd just like to let the non-US readers of this forum know that there are LOTS of US citizens like myself who don't own a gun and don't have any use for a gun. Unlike the impression given on many MC forums we aren't all gun owners here in the US. That said, I'm fortunate enough to live in a low crime area and I'm not a hunter. If I lived somewhere where I was legitimately concerned about my or my family's safety regarding home intruders I would consider owning one. dhansen, please tell me that's you in that picture!
TX REDNECK (R.I.P.) Posted August 2, 2006 Author Posted August 2, 2006 I guess finding a virgin is that much more difficult these days? This guy has helped several people find their 72 virgins
Guest SantaFeRider Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 You can maybe buy it here but I am sure importation into the US is illegal covered by the ailiens and nasty foriegners laws. The second picture is how we amuse ourself of a weekend BURN THE WICKERMAN! Haggis is legal in the US if offal (lung tissue) is not used in its confection. Told you, the darned thing is lethal! However, if you live near or pass by Braemer, the butcher who is on the main drag at the entrance of town, three blocks on the left on a triangular corner end, advertises his venison haggis as the best there is. I prefer lamb chops, no mint sauce.
macguzzi Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 An interesting new use of haggis in Scotland is in Pakora or Samosa's most of our over the pond guys won't know what those are unless they have been on a tour of the middle east toting thier great big huge GUNS.
Guest SantaFeRider Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 An interesting new use of haggis in Scotland is in Pakora or Samosa's most of our over the pond guys won't know what those are unless they have been on a tour of the middle east toting thier great big huge GUNS. I don't know Pakoras, but Samosas you can find in Trader Joe's or Whole Foods in Santa Fe, a 60,000 inhabitants town in the middle of New Mexico...
todd haven Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 This guy has helped several people find their 72 virgins Tex, With Marines like that on the job, they better order up more virgins.
dlaing Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 Tex, With Marines like that on the job, they better order up more virgins. God gets them from the US bible belt
Guest SantaFeRider Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 God gets them from the US bible belt yes, under 13 and much better runners than their cousins
dhansen Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 dhansen, please tell me that's you in that picture! Only in my wildest dream.............
Guest ratchethack Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 Let me make one correction to a very unfortunate and very common, very uneducated statement that has been made back in post #63. It was said there and repeated later that the only purpose for a handgun is homicide. This is blatantly and most egregiously false. I've used handguns my whole life and have never so much as hurt a single person in any way with any gun, let alone committed a homicide. So have many of my friends and nearly my entire family for generations, and everyone I know who owns handguns. Cops typically use them very effectively - exactly as intended - every working day for their entire careers without commiting homicide, or even firing one at a person. So what are cops primarily using handguns for, if not to kill people? Answer: as a DETERRENT to crime. It doesn't need to be fired at all to be an effective deterrent, let alone fired at a person. Sorry to take this quote slightly out of context, but I see another logical dilemna... If one is indeed 'educated' on their use, weapons are an absolutely last resort option for defense. There's no logical dilemma here for anyone who's been properly trained in the use of deadly force for self defense. Ask anyone accomplished in martial arts or any cop. One of the primary uses of a self defense handgun, and where it's most often and effectively deployed as mentioned above, is it's tremendous power to prevent violence and all forms of crime just by its presence - that is, the use of the sight of it itself as a deterrent to the initiation of a criminal attack. This prevents any need for a handgun to be drawn in a large percentage of potentially dangerous situations, let alone even pointed at a potential assailant or perpetrator. The use of a laser sight on a gun, such as the two I'm practiced with, has been shown to have an additional powerful deterrent effect that in a large percentage of self-defense cases eliminates the need for firing the gun. The perceived ABILITY to use the gun with deadly force, of course, if needed, is essential to it's proper use as deterrent. The courts have already ruled that the time taken to locate and load a firearm for warding off an intruder may be equivalent to premeditated murder. The same time taken to dial the police, or flee might save a lot of time pondering this difficult legal question while sitting in prison. I stay pretty close to the legislation on gun use, but you've totally lost me here. Maybe you could "unpack" the first statement above a little bit? I don't know what court you're referring to, but the use of a gun in defense against a clear and present mortal threat and potential loss of life, particularly one's own and/or one's family, and particularly within the walls of one's home, for example, has seldom been adjudicated against the person under attack as murder, let alone premeditated, though I'm sure there have been the most extremely remote, bizzare of exceptions under extenuating circumstances. Of course, if a person is incapable of trusting themselves to know when the use of deadly force is legally as well as morally justified and/or has not been trained well enough to make that call, they should never allow themselves to be in a position to use deadly force. I've met a few guys who've made that decision and will not own weapons for that reason. It's certainly an admirable choice if made well and with proper understanding.
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