High Compression Pistons

[Alex-Corsa]

Alex,

 

sorry for missunderstanding you. I thought you've bought them.

 

Hubert

 

No problem I should have said that.Anyways my 'moto' is to preffer a modification that a company applies instead of doing it extra ,and of course after being something that proved it's worth.

If I have to do a big mod for my bike, that can be done only ,in highly experienced personel and concidering a well proven modification for the bike. Generally all these tend to get the cost too high so I avoid them.

i.e. To bring a Daytona 1000 up to the DaytonaRS specs with the upgraded kit that the RS had and other different goodies would cost a lot. But it has costed back then, almost the same when the bikes come as new from factory production.

 

Moral of the story is that,factory production modifications are better and cheaper than doing them extra for you.

Now why don't Guzzi get Jens Hofmann in their performance developement personel .as a chief engineer perhaps????

[pete roper]

 

To bring a Daytona 1000 up to the DaytonaRS specs with the upgraded kit that the RS had and other different goodies would cost a lot. But it has costed back then, almost the same when the bikes come as new from factory production.

 

 

Apart from the suspension upgrades there are few improvements to the RS over the Racing but the Base model doesn't have the 'C' kit stuff. Personally If I had an early Hi Cam I'd stick lash-caps on the valves and fit one of Cliff's 'Pooters and that would be about it and it would certainly be cheaper than fitting the factory upgrades. I'd certainly NOT want the RS 'Broad Sump' with all the associated problems that go with it!

 

Pete

[Alex-Corsa]

Apart from the suspension upgrades there are few improvements to the RS over the Racing but the Base model doesn't have the 'C' kit stuff. Personally If I had an early Hi Cam I'd stick lash-caps on the valves and fit one of Cliff's 'Pooters and that would be about it and it would certainly be cheaper than fitting the factory upgrades. I'd certainly NOT want the RS 'Broad Sump' with all the associated problems that go with it!

 

Pete

 

Here is an example from THE MOTO GUZZI STORY - IAN Falloon.

 

The Daytona racing was a developed model with some serious additions over the 1000,that came in the early '96 after the D.1000 and before the RS,

The RS had the C kit as a stock bike and then even some more,AFAIK, there was though, yet another 'racing' kit for the RS, that came out for more HP

[pete roper]

Here is an expert from THE MOTO GUZZI STORY - IAN Falloon.

 

The Daytona racing was a developed model with some serious additions over the 1000,that came in the early '96 after the D.1000 and before the RS,

The RS had the C kit as a stock bike and then even some more,AFAIK, there was though, yet another 'racing' kit for the RS, that came out for more HP

 

As far as I know there were no further developments with the engine until the MGS01. I make no claims to being any sort of *expert* but I don't agree with Mr. Falloon on a number of things he's written. To be honest if you want a better apraisal I'd suggest Greg's book.

 

Most importantly remember that there is no such thing as an 'Oracle'. All of us who have been around Guzzis for a long time have our own knowledge and interpretations of what is *good* or *bad* from the factory. I certainly don't claim to know much about Hi-Cams, mainly because I don't actually like them very much but I am a reasonably competent mechanic with a fairly long experience with doing things the 'Guzzi Way'. Talk of not having to worry about oil lights and the statement that engines will run happily for 'Several minutes' without oil pressure I'm afraid worry me, not for my own sake, I know that's bollocks, but because people who DON'T have a fundamental undertanding of how a plain bearing works may be lulled into a sense of false security which could cost the large sums of money, or worse, serious injury.

 

Yeah, yeah. I know all the caveats about info got from the internet being worth exactly what you pay for it but dangerous mis-information opens up a whole new vista. I've got a lot of stuff published on the web. Not for profit. Not because I need to have my ego massaged, but because I HOPE that it will help other owners have some understanding of their machines and prevent them from making the sort of stupid mistakes I made before I actually got TAUGHT the how and why of how motorbikes work. If people think I'm high handed I apologise. I certainly don't intend to hand out 'Word of God' type information but it is also important to realize that some things are unattainable within the parrameters of the engine we are dealing with. 100BHP at the rear wheel is NOT a possibility, at least not with any degree of longevity, with the current 2 valve motor. Yes, you can build race motors that will produce that sort of power, but they have race-bike service intervals and service life as well. For the average owner this sort of stuff is fantasyland and it certainly isn't anything to do with an *everyday* motorbike.

 

The Guzzi 2 valve design is a fine piece of engineering, simple, robust, tollerant of mistakes and very, very functional. Performance wise they still punch way above their weight but that is something to capitalize on and be proud of, not something to feel worried about or ashamed of, especially it's stupid if you want to play 'Dyno-Graph Wars' with anything remotely *modern*. By all means tune the buggery out of them but DON'T then try and convince others with limited knowledge and smaller budgets that it was cheap and/or easy because I'm sorry, it won't be.

 

Pete

[luhbo]

....

Now why don't Guzzi get Jens Hofmann in their performance developement personel .as a chief engineer perhaps????

 

They probably know him and about him. Maybe that's the reason...

[Alex-Corsa]

They probably know him and about him. Maybe that's the reason...

 

 

!!! That doesn't sound good or? You can PM me if you think so

 

By all means tune the buggery out of them but DON'T then try and convince others with limited knowledge and smaller budgets that it was cheap and/or easy because I'm sorry, it won't be.

 

Pete

 

?????

 

 

As far as I know there were no further developments with the engine until the MGS01. I make no claims to being any sort of *expert* but I don't agree with Mr. Falloon on a number of things he's written. To be honest if you want a better apraisal I'd suggest Greg's book.

Mick Walker shares the same with Ian on that.

 

The Guzzi 2 valve design is a fine piece of engineering, simple, robust, tollerant of mistakes and very, very functional.

Pete

You can say that again

[Guest ratchethack]

By all means tune the buggery out of them but DON'T then try and convince others with limited knowledge and smaller budgets that it was cheap and/or easy because I'm sorry, it won't be.

 

Pete

Pete, how do you explain the following mentality that you've no doubt witnessed countless times over decades of twiddling these old dinosaurs? It seems to've been a progressive trend in recent years.

 

I'm talking about the mentality that results in dumping thousands of dollars into go-faster modifications and services that NOT ALWAYS (back off, those of you who may or may not yet've been past stage 3, round 1 below, please) -- but more often than not results in the following scenario:

 

1. Bolt-on go-faster modification$. Guzzi immediately runs like crap, Part I.

 

2. Dyno-tune $e$$ion$. Chart looks "promising". Great elation over justifcation of time & expense.

 

3. Needs more modification$ because it still doesn't run right.

 

4. Bolt-on more modification$. Guzzi immediately runs like crap, Part II.

 

5. More dyno-tune $e$$ion$. Chart again looks "promising", but Guzzi still doesn't run right. Less elation over time & expense.

 

6. Lather well again with more dollar$ (parts &/or services), rinse & repeat, starting with point #1. Continued rapidly diminishing returns on elation sequence. Repeat cycle as many times as one can stand, before jumping off the merry-go-round.

 

7. $ell Guzzi at a tremendou$ lo$$, buy new brand moto and $tart the proce$$ over ($ee point #1).

 

I've witnessed this cycle many many times with many owners of many marques. During the time I've owned my Guzzi, I've seen the identical pattern many more times with Guzzis, including right here on this Forum. Some of these guys, like my Pal with the FBF hi-comp pistons and the previous owner of his Guzzi, never get the Guzzi out of its break-in period - even after years of ownership.

 

In the meantime, I've been logging daily miles on 2 motorcycles that're well maintained for the long haul in an entirely satisfactory (though many would certainly say lesser, even inadequate) state of tune, (albeit a far far greater state of tune than stock) while so many other Guzzis are logging extended garage time between "advancements" in the cycle above.

 

Yeah, I know there are many exceptions. I know many guys who claim they win at the tables every time they go to Las Vegas. I also know a few who actually have once or twice.

 

Am I the only one who sees a pattern here and doesn't quite "get it?"

 

Am I the only one who even considers such things as long-term ownership, reliability, and cost per mile??

 

Am I the only one who exploits the entire rev range to its fullest, yet almost NEVER finds the need to hit Wide Open Throttle (WOT, aka WFO) on the road for more'n a few seconds every couple hundred miles (steady, 100% WOT being the standard dyno condition that creates those nice peaks on the dyno charts)???

 

A bewildered obvserver awaits y'er reply amid an enraged flurry of justification behavior and examples that purport to counter the trend. . . .

 

Carry on!

 

Cdr. Hatchracket, Road Geez Patrol

[antonio carroccio]

Ratch, about tuning. There is tuning AND tuning.

With the simple things (camshaft, mufflers, K&N, etc) the modification is still limitate to best performance low cost.

That's good for us. Best result with minimal effort.

After this process, here we go, remapping the ORIGINAL ECU and don't put no surrogate like, Bikepower, PCIII and others.

After this, as the last step, the suspenctions.

 

Here you are, a real good working machine, with lots of results and a good sound.

Cost, no more than 2000,- Euro.

 

now is your turn!

[Guzzirider]

Ratch

 

Lighten up mate! Motorbikes are about having fun, not MPG and constant criticism of what others are doing.

 

Chill out man, smoke a joint, make love to a beautiful woman, drink some nice wine then take a long ride just for fun- grow your hair long, have a great time and be at peace with this world.

 

Remember these are ITALIAN motorcycles ridden by folks who have red blood and a strong pulse!

 

Guy

 

[Guest ratchethack]

. . . . . smoke a joint, make love to a beautiful woman, drink some nice wine then take a long ride just for fun- grow your hair long, have a great time and be at peace with this world.

. . . . .

Thanks, Guzzirider.

 

This would seem to explain a great deal.

 

I think I understand much better now. . . .

 

Unfortunately, this brings to mind that horribly asinine song, "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" by Cyndi Lauper.

 

It seems to be more of a "Lifestyle Thing".

 

Far as I can tell, the Cyndi Lauper School of Guzzi Ownership fits the philosophy of quite a few.

 

Here's a male version that you might prefer:

 

Boys Just Wanna Have Fun

 

'We stumble home, smell of miller light.

Our mothers say "Why do you always get in fights?"

Sorry mother dear,

But that kid was a punk.

We boys,

We wanna get drunk.

Oh boys,

Just wanna get drunk.

 

The cell rings in the middle of our night,

My father yells "You're never going to find a good wife!"

Later Dad,

This beer's gonna skunk,

Oh boys,

We wanna be drunk,

Oh girls:

That's all we really want,

To get drunk.

 

When the working day is done,

Oh boys,

We wanna be drunk.

Oh boys,

Just wanna be drunk.

We boys

We wanna be drunk.

Boys,

Just wanna be.

 

Some girls try to steal our best friends,

Try to bring their drinking days to an end.

But beer, it's thicker than love.

Oh boys,

We wanna be drunk,

Oh girls:

That's all we really want,

To get drunk.

 

When the working day is done,

Oh boys,

We wanna be drunk.

Oh boys,

Just wanna be drunk.'

[big J]

I still dont get this.If your mate has trouble with hi-comp pistons,why not fix it?

 

Should be easy enough to either reset the timing or machine the pistons to achieve what he wants.A side benefit of reducing the dome of the piston slightly would be a better flame path,but you could still have the advantages of tighter squish(assuming that's one reason they were fitted) to promote mixture burn.

 

If he wants to keep the hi-comp pistons,dual plugs and knock back the timing a bit.Or what about a cam with a bit more overlap?It's a motorbike engine,not quantum physics,they all work on easily understood principles.

 

Is your mate just a geezette then? Not yet attained the inner peace and full universal equilibrium that only the enlightened "road geez" can enjoy?)

[Guest ratchethack]

I still dont get this.If your mate has trouble with hi-comp pistons,why not fix it?

Big J, there are many many things that people do that I will never begin to understand, many of 'em right here on this Forum. As far as I can tell, my Pal's in exactly the same situation now as the previous owner was over 2 years ago when he dumped the bike at his dealer for a pittance after draining a considerable pile of his bank account into it - lots of good money after bad. Both owners got a hard lesson and paid dearly for it for the same reasons and ended up in exactly the same spot. As far as I can tell, this kinda thing happens a lot, and always has. Amazingly enough, this won't likely be the last stop on this train. Is it finally shame and humiliation that eventually overcomes whatever the attraction was in the beginning and eventually inspires a search for greener pastures?

 

And so the cycle continues. . . . .

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

I prefer Exude's version 'Boys Just Wanna Have Sex" but I probably resemble Ratchets version more often!

 

My high compression pistons are just fine by the way!!

 

My choice!

[Guest ratchethack]

My high compression pistons are just fine by the way!!

Heli-Jim, how d'you reckon y'er CAN pump gas compares with our highest octane pump gas -- at least the best we can reliably get here on the road -- 91 (RON)?

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Here in Canada 91 is available everywhere and Petrocan and Chevron have 94 RON. I try to use them whenever possible as there is never a problem with them but 91 works well for me except on hot days when I have sometimes noticed pinging at low rpm and too much throttle. I find that not lugging the motor avoids this.