Tire advice sought

[Guest ratchethack]

Rocker, I saw your "Moto Guzzis DO NOT LIKE Metzelers" comment in another thread, thought you were kidding. Care to elaborate?

I've seen a fair heap o' raw, unsubstantiated dreck on Guzzi forums.

 

This one's a contender for top honors.

 

If it had any basis in fact, what d'you s'pose would've possessed Pete Roper (someone who'd be likely to be well aware of any such "moto immune system incompatibilities" if anyone would, don't you think) to put a Z6 on his new Griso? -- Unmatched to a Z6 on the front, as I recall??

 

Enquiring minds don't need to know any more, but are occasionally compelled to repose in awe and wonder over the mentality behind such folly. . . . .

 

As a public service, such idiocy needs to be taken down hard, early, often, and with overwhelming force.

[dlaing]

I have to dissagree with that

 

Metzeler M1

 

 

If you had been using Pirellis, you could have kept the bike on the right side of the road

[dlaing]

I've seen a fair heap o' raw, unsubstantiated dreck on Guzzi forums.

 

This one's a contender for top honors.

 

If it had any basis in fact, what d'you s'pose would've possessed Pete Roper to put a Z6 on his new Griso? -- Unmatched to a Z6 on the front as I recall??

 

Enquiring minds don't need to know any more, but repose in awe and wonder over the mentality behind such folly. . . . . <_ src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_whistle.gif" alt=":whistle:">

 

As a public service, such idiocy needs to be taken down hard, early, often, and with overwhelming force.

While I agree that Metzeler radials are perfectly fine on our Guzzis, according to a test that someone posted in another thread the Diablo Strada out performed the Z2, Z4 or Z6 on wet roads.

Rocker is from England which is known for wetter roads than San Diego.

Pointing out the obvious to rude idiots needs to be done swiftly and with overwhelming malevolence

[Guest ratchethack]

Pointing out the obvious to rude idiots needs to be done swiftly and with overwhelming malevolence

I wholeheartedly agree, with the exception of the malevolence thing.

 

Malevolence devoid of rationality is the common expression of idiots.

 

I can't imagine a better case in point than what you've provided here, Dave:

 

Rocker is from England which is known for wetter roads than San Diego.

Errr, what could wet or dry conditions possibly have to do with Guzzi's "not liking" Metzeler tires?

 

This calls for more repose in awe and wonder over the mentality behind the folly, which now seems to grow and thrive amidst more fields already known to be fertile ground for all manner of folly. . . . .

 

Not that the prevailing climate where the person lives who made the repeated, unfortunate, false, and entirely unsubstantiated blanket statement has any bearing whatsoever on the veracity of what was said -- but as shown recently on this forum in a top European tire eval, Metzeler tires have consistently ranked at the top of the evaluations in wet weather performance. I've been using Metzeler tires for 40 years -- for among many other reasons, the superior grip many models offer in the wet, including 3 different model Metzeler tires (matched front and rear, though I've also mixed both models and brands with no significant problems) on my Guzzi, each one IMHO a superior tire in it's own right - Z4, M-1, and now Z6. The Z6 came in at #2 in the wet and #1 in the dry in the Motorrad comparo and analysis that Alex linked to recently, as I recall.

 

Just as a point of reference, many of us who live in a natural coastal desert with very low annual rainfall (we avg. ~11"/yr. here) find it wise to run tires developed for superior wet weather grip. The reason is that in the coastal and inland mountains, where we have access to some of the very best riding on the planet IMHO , snow and rain runoff at certain times of the year - as well as rain directly on the roads - provide mountain road conditions where superior performance in the wet is a great advantage as well as a significant safety consideration. With such exceptional tires as the Z6, there are few "trade-off" considerations to be given up between wet and dry performance.

 

BAA, TJM & YMMV

[dlaing]

As a public service, such idiocy needs to be taken down hard, early, often, and with overwhelming force.

Sounds like AM trash talk radio

Where is the love?

[Guest ratchethack]

Where is the love?

Why, HERE it is, Dave!

 

A pair o' y'er favorite GROUPTHINK icons.

 

By the looks of it, Jesse just can't get enough!

[dlaing]

Why, HERE it is, Dave!

Now your talkin'!

Way to go Cindy!

[rocketman]

Thanks again guys. I ordered a 170 Z6 for the yesterday through a local independent shop who gave me a great price for the tire and mounting/balancing. He mentioned the Pirelli deal and an Avon deal but both were more track oriented tires than I was looking for. The shop owner is a long time racer so I asked him his opinion on the mismatched tire combo and he felt that I would be fine, as RH suggested. I'll throw a new Z6 on the front later this year. Here's a link to the shop for any of you MA guys out there who may need tires or gear sometime (Turo?)

http://www.bikeworx.com/

 

Rocketman, I went with the Z6 because the Pirelli website shows the Corsa III tire as a "70% track, 30% street" tire. They give no indication of expected mileage but it doesn't sound like a 6k+ mile tire to me. I could of course be wrong on that though.

 

Rocker, I saw your "Moto Guzzis DO NOT LIKE Metzelers" comment in another thread, thought you were kidding. Care to elaborate?

 

Looks like you have done your research Tom. The Z6 is a very good tire. I still stand firm on the need to run matched tires. Good luck with your choice.

[Skeeve]

While I agree that Metzeler radials are perfectly fine on our Guzzis, according to a test that someone posted in another thread the Diablo Strada out performed the Z2, Z4 or Z6 on wet roads.

Rocker is from England which is known for wetter roads than San Diego.

Pointing out the obvious to rude idiots needs to be done swiftly and with overwhelming malevolence

 

The Diablo Strada outperforming the Metz Z6 on wet roads would be entirely due to the siping, since they're otherwise the same tire. Outperforming the Z4 in any conditions wouldn't be too hard; iirc, it's design brief predates Pirelli's acquisition of Metzler, & anyway, it has been supplanted by the Z6. Z2? Wasn't that the supposed replacement for the Z1 that was so abominably bad that nobody has ever bothered with it? Again, with the advancements made in motorcycle tires since the coming of the radial age, matching a 10 y.o. racing tire against even a touring tire that's up to the minute is hardly fair to the older design.

 

Stating that "Metzlers aren't compatible with Guzzis" is ridiculous. While I don't like Z4s in the wet on any bike, on dry, unpainted road they're quite happy. So far, the Z6s mounted on the same bike (non-Guzzi) are superior in every respect: handling, roadholding, longevity, whatever.

 

Ride on,

[Skeeve]

I still stand firm on the need to run matched tires. Good luck with your choice.

 

I still stand firm on the fact that this is blown WAY out of proportion to other factors: tread wear, grip, etc. etc.

 

Mixing bias & radial is a totally different critter: iirc, there's only one motorcycle that was ever spec'd. for that combo, the Africa Twin? Anyway, there's bad juju in that area, but mixing similar radials isn't so much of a problem, at least for 90% of the world. Let's face it: if you're going to be riding at 10/10ths on the track or 9/10s on public roads, then yes, you absolutely owe it to yourself & others to eliminate the risk by having matching tires. For my riding needs, where I rarely exceed the posted limit by more than 10mph and ride well within my capabilities on a daily commute, then milking all the wear out of the tires justifies running a mismatched set that nevertheless meets the manufacturer's specs. I've ridden a Conti rear w/ a Metzler front, vice-versa, and expect I'll be running some other combo [maybe a Bridgerock rear w/ a Metz front soon on the commuter bike] before I need to replace both tires at the same time again. When I avg. rears needing repl. at 6k miles and fronts between 8 & 10k, then clearly I'd be sacrificing 1/4 or more of the wear on the fronts if I replaced them "to match" the rear...

 

Like I said, for most purposes, this issue is blown all out of proportion to it's real signficance.

 

Ride on!

[dlaing]

Here are the alleged test results

 

Here is the recent test in MOTORRAD. They determined the best sport-touring tire and the best sport tire for street/trackday in the dry and wet with lap-times that don't lie and also tire wear/longevity. Interesting was also that the difference in corner speed between the best sport-touring tire and the best sport tire was only 2,5 mph and they said todays best touring tires have more than adequate traction for all kind of streetriding. Only if you do trackdays and are fast enough to get the sport tires warm enough sport tires are safer and the way to go. Remember this is a German test (!), Pirelli fare better in Italy as Dunlops do in UK, etc.

 

Anyways the best SPORT-TOURING tires - Dry:

 

1) Metzeler Z6

1) Conti Road Attack (!)

3) Pirelli Diablo Strada

4) Dunlop D220

5) Michelin Pilot Road

6) Bridgestone BT020

7) Avon Azaro

 

Wet:

 

1) Pirelli Diablo Strada

2) Metzeler Z6

3) Michelin Pilot Road

4) Conti Road Attack

5) Dunlop D220

6) Bridgestone BT020

7) Avon Azaro

 

--> Between the best and worst tire were 5,5 sec difference in lap time!

 

SPORT-TIRES - Dry. Lou, you may consider upgrading (?)

 

1) Metzeler M3

2) Michelin Pilot Power 2CT

3) Michelin Pilot Power

4) Conti Sport Attack

5) Metzeler M1

6) Pirelli Diablo

7) Dunlop Qualifier

8) Bridgestone BT014

9) Avon Viper Sport

 

Wet:

 

1) Michelin Pilot Power

2) Michelin Pilot Power 2CT

3) Metzeler M3

4) Pirelli Diablo

5) Metzeler M1

6) Conti Sport Attack

7) Avon Viper Sport

8) Dunlop Qualifier

9) Bridgestone BT014

 

9,4 sec difference per lap between the fastest and slowest tire on the same motorcycle! (Yamaha R6)

 

6 tires were tested on tread wear; (rear tire):

 

1) Metzeler Z6 8400 miles (!)

2) Pirelli Diablo 4400 miles

3) Metzeler M3 4100 miles

4) Michelin Pilot Power 2CT 3500 miles

5) Dunlop Qualifier 3100 miles

4) Conti Sport Attack 2500 miles (testbikes Buell XB12S)

 

--

http://forum.motorcycle-usa.com/default.as...24&m=282597

[dlaing]

I can't imagine a better case in point than what you've provided here, Dave:

Errr, what could wet or dry conditions possibly have to do with Guzzi's "not liking" Metzeler tires?

 

This calls for more repose in awe and wonder over the mentality behind the folly, which now seems to grow and thrive amidst more fields already known to be fertile ground for all manner of folly. . . . .

If you knew how to read you would have noticed that I did not agree with Rocker.

However your ability to be so rude never ceases to amaze me and that is what I am addressing.

You repeatedly fail to understand anyone else's TRUTH.

Rocker can speak for himself, but I can only assume that his experience with Metzelers and Pirellis on Guzzis on British roads has led him to the point where he believes Metzelers are inferior to Pirellis on Guzzis.

The Motorrad test is evidence that backs up why he might arrive at that conclusion.

You can go ahead and irresponsibly push Z6s on people riding on wet roads, or you can open your mind to dialog with people who have different views than you and arrive at a purer TRUTH.

 

The Diablo Strada outperforming the Metz Z6 on wet roads would be entirely due to the siping, since they're otherwise the same tire.

What is siping?

The way the treads displace the water whether due to depth or pattern

The amount of silicate in the compound

[mdude]

RE: test results out of Motorrad: it looks like Bridgestone has delivered the last tire to my bikes....

[belfastguzzi]

What is siping?

The way the treads displace the water whether due to depth or pattern

It's that – the tread grooves.

The Strada and the the Roadtec are very similar though, aren't they?

[Baldini]

Dunno about truth but we all form opinions & mostly that's all they are. I haven't used Metzelers recently but had me99's etc & Phantoms...Metzelers worked fine, they were good tyres, but I found I preferred thefeel from Pirellis. Some liked Metzelers...guess it's same today. To say Metzelers don't work on Guzzis is just personal opinion also, not fact. I've got Conti Sport Attacks on now...they grip great, but don't have the feel of the previous Power 2CT's. Handling is completely different - much slower & neutral, nice in it's own way, but v different to the Michelins. Like Skeeve said above, keep it in proportion. Most these modern tyres work great, but each has different characteristics & appropriate applications. Grip, handling, price, mileage, size, availability? As to relevance of magazine tests mostly run on Jap Sports bikes on track ....

 

KB