A bit out of topic....

[mdude]

Some of you old salty sea beards have probably some experience with Laverdas biggest and toughest. I have always lusted for a Laverda triple; 1000, 3C, 1200 or Jota.

 

Now I have suddenly come across two interesting subjects: one Jota 79 (oooh soooo sexy!!) and one 3C 77 with Jota-specs. Very nicely priced, and both appears to be well sorted and fit to roam. The Jota has some battle scars, but nothing serious. The 3C appears to be mint. Both are priced to sell.

 

I have never ridden one, because they are so rare. What should I expect? I've read volumes about the Jotas rock hard suspension, earbleedingly loud engine and heavy clutch and all that. I can handle that. I'm a big boy now. And thats why I want one. I'm also familiar with the need for fiddling; I've got a V11 and a Laverda already for chrissakes.

 

But can anyone tell me: when compared to the V11 (which is a classic/veteran at heart) how is it like to drive? Does it handle? Can you trust it on longer trips? (assuming that the niggles have been fixed already)

 

What should I especially be lookin for? Is it a stable and sporty touring monstre like the V11?

 

Give me advice, please (I f... hate msn-groups, thats why I ask on these pages)

[mike wilson]

I've only ridden the 1200 (not Mirage) but it was for about 6 months when the machine was about 4 months old.

 

In good tune, a magic carpet ride. By which, I mean ultimately smooth, with engine power coming on like an electric motor, with that smooth drone from the exhaust. At some speeds. Outside those speeds, noticeable engine vibration - to the point of pain in the hands if trying to exceed legal (over 90mph) speeds for any distance. Solid, stable handling.

 

The chain seemed to need adjusting at least every other day but this was the days before Oring beasties. You may get better mileage now. On the lower run of the chain, there was a frame member at right angles just behind the passenger peg (IIRC) that would start to get sawn by the slack if you didn't keep on top of it. Definitely a point to check.

 

Slow speed running was compromised by an early form of electronic ignition that rattled back and forth between fully advanced and whatever, causing the machine to stutter badly when travelling at legal speed in town. You had to sit in a lower gear than was pleasant to avoid it.

 

Fuel mileage as you would expect.

 

I seem to remember that the engines were built on Japanese principles, with the cam running direct in the head material.

 

In short, good fun to have my own spurs and a borrowed horse but I wouldn't have bought one then and probably wouldn't now.

[beauchemin]

I seem to remember that the engines were built on Japanese principles, with the cam running direct in the head material.

The cams run in plain bearing blocks that are not integral with the head (i.e. they can be replaced if worn). The don't normally wear out, but the early ones (pre-'76) were prone to crumbling.

 

The triples are wonderful beasts. They are simple and very robust. They vibrate, but it is low frequency and low amplitude vibration. I think my V11 was worse at times. They really benefit from a proper ignition system with an actual advance curve (as mike wilson mentions). They aren't the greatest for riding around town, but wonderful on the open road. Either one sounds good,. If you can, ride them both and buy the one that feels the best.

[mdude]

 

The triples are wonderful beasts.

 

 

thats what I like to hear. more experiences, please.

[big J]

Martin,I had a Formula Mirage 1200.It looked like a standard one,but with special paint,clip ons,factory rearsets and a tuned engine.The motor apparently was hand-assembled with hi-comp pistons,6C(endurance race) cams and 38mm pumper Dellortos.I took the exhausts off to paint them,and when I looked,there was nothing inside,just an empty space.Strangely,it had no engine number,it was when I tried to find out about it's history that I was told about the mods.I cant confirm the story,but it definetly had 6C cams and carbs.The numbers are on the cams themselves and can be seen when you lift the cambox.

It went like gangbusters!!!At the time,my mates had various incarnations of Z1000's and GS 1000's and it could take them in a straight line.Handling was another story though.It used to scare me shitless regularly.Unless you were totally in command and MADE the bastard go where you wanted,it would buck and weave and generally try to boss you around.It was like a rhinoceros that you'd jumped on and had whacked it's arse with a stick with a nail in it.A wild,rampaging dinosaur,elemental and violent.

Ditto what the lads said about the advance/retard,at around 2700 rpm,the ignition switches to full advance,noticeable,but you get used to it.I believe that nowadays there is an updated,modern alternative.A wee tale....

 

1989,TT week.My mate,Davie Dixon and I were coming home early,on the thursday morning due to work commitments.Got off the ferry about 6 am at Heysham and then to the motorway.Davie had a lovely Z1100 Eddie Lawson Replica.1170cc big bore kit,skimmed and flowed head,cams,pipe,the works.She was really nice.

I was 2-up with my ex missus on the Mirage.As usual,speeds crept up and up.Apart from a smoke break at Beattock Summit(we stopped cos it was the first time either of us had seen sunshine there) we were rarely below 100mph.There's a stretch between Gretna and Lockerbie that's dead straight for about 2 miles and as we peeled into it,incredibly there wasn't any other vehicle in sight.We both opened up,a lane each.Davie had his feet on the pillion pegs,tucked in,flat out.I wasn't so tucked in cos of the wife,but wound it all the way out as well.I dunno how accurate the speedo was,but it was past 150 mph.We got to the end of the straight,I let Davie ahead(we had stayed pretty much level) and followed him into the outside lane into a long sweeper,the Lav blasting into it.At about 130 mph,laid over,she starts to weave.Oh shit.I can see the forks and steering head moving laterally(side to side).I kept her wound,but dragged the back brake a bit to keep her on line,then we were off again.That bike loved it,bellowing and roaring defiance at everything.It felt better after a 90 mile flat out blast than a 5 mile run.

By the time we got back to Glasgow,I was #@$&@#@.Absolutely #@$&@#@.Everymuscle,shoulders,arms,stomach,thighs were exhausted.I had trouble lifting a pint,it was that bad.

Great bike,part of me wishes I still had it,part of me was very relieved when I sold it.A couple of years later,I met the guy I bought it off,a neurosurgeon.He asked if I still had it,I said no.After a moment,I said"T hat bike used to scare me sometimes,you know"He said that was why he sold it too!

Go for it,Martin.They're reliable and characterful bikes.Just dont get a tuned one!

[Steve G.]

I've owned my '81 Jota since 1994. As well I've had good seat time on the 120 degree engine , as well as 1200cc 180 degree engine, but my majority knowledge is of the 1000cc 180 degree engine.

I'll simply list out the positives and negatives, then try to cross-compare to the V11 series Moto Guzzi.

Negatives:

They really are high effort machines, whether it's clutch, brakes, throttle, or countersteering, it really is true that these are not 'girlie bikes'. If you are a small framed person who rides alot of stop and go traffic, you should consider going to the gym, and moving into the countryside.

They are very heavy.

The original electronic ignition is very primitive, [it was the first production motorcycle to have elec ignition standard] with a zero degree spark advance until around 2500 rpm, where it would jump to 32 deg advance. If you ride it around the 2500 rpm mark, it will tend to jump from 0 to 32 and back to 0 in quick order, causing something of a surge and slow thing going on. You either have to run it below or above this mark in town.

It is chain drive.

There are better fuel economy bikes out there. Expect range of around 110 miles [185kms] range before you hit reserve. If your country has emission testing for bikes, the Jota's big pumper Del'Orto's will fail. Laverda engines love to run rich mixtures.

A true Jota spec engine with 7c cams offer an in your face,high compression, spitting, loud, anti social, fricking monster. Your neighbors won't like you anymore. I've learned to turn my bike off when coming home at night, and gliding at speed down my little street.

 

Positives:

If you are a bigger person, the Laverda is a breath of fresh air. After meeting Pierro Laverda last spring in Los Angeles, I now know why, he is a big guy, and he built it to fit him.

The machine is one of the most stable bikes at speed ever made. Banked over on a big sweeper at 110 mph, the things are as smooth as a cruise liner. Very solid.

The parts supply situation is perhaps better than when new, with a few very hard core enthusiasts who literally love the bikes, and want them out on the road being used.

The bikes very rarely brake. Laverda was a serious agriculture machinery supplier to Europe, and this overbuilt engineering transfered over to the bikes. The engine internals are rediculously overbuilt.

Laverda was never steered to country of origin hang-ups when sourcing componentry. They used the best available at the time of manufacture. Early on it was Smiths from England. During the 1000cc 3 cylinder years, it was Bosch, and Nippon Denso.

Laverda 3 cylinder achillies heal, the electronic ignition, is easily replaced with the lastest Moto Witt DMC photo-cell ignition, with 18 advance profiles to choose from. The engine is a true joy with this system, increased power, and big torque.

It is chain drive.

They are very heavy.

A Laverda is a very rare machine, hand made in every respect, made in batches of 100 per year per model. It is unlikely you will show up at a bike place and see your bike's double.

Ownership of a Laverda will instill in you a very high level pride of ownership, rare in motorcycling. The machines just ooze character, and many people will ask questions about the big imposing monster. And then when you start it, men will smile and nod their heads in approval, women will frown, and kids will duck behind their dads legs.

 

In spite of their origin being from Northern Italy, Laverda 1000 Jota and Moto Guzzi V11 are very different. Engine performance is surprisingly similar, around 80-90hp. The non-Jota spec 1000 [3C, 3CL]runs around 75hp. Bike performance, the V11 is much quicker out of the hole, through the quarter mile, perhaps a 1/2 second quicker. Top speed for both I would call a draw, around 135mph on my GPS, which does not lie like Veglia or Nippon Denso. The Guzzi gets there a bit faster though. The Guzzi is way nicer around town, but the Laverda is really long legged, and is a better handling bike by far at speeds over 80 mph. Because the Laverda is a longer wheelbase, it's steering is slower, at full lean, the Lavvie changes direction slower, so you have to start turning the bike before the turn arrives, and use all the lane. The Guzzi changes direction quite quickly as we V11 owners know. Vibration of the 180 dregree engine does not show up until 4000rpm, around 80 mph, but as the engine revs towards 5500rpm, you know youve got a spinning hulk down there. But at 5900rpm, around 110 mph all goes silky smooth, much like the 1064cc engine Guzzi does at 5000rpm. While the Guzzi gearbox is quite nicer shifting, the Laverda needs a bit more effort to move to the next cog, but with a positive engagement that leaves no mistake.

Bike stature is the biggest difference though. The Moto Guzzi V11 series by most measure is a smaller bike shorter, lighter, with lighter easier switchgear and levers. The Laverda is simply big, huge, grand. The engine is huge, the frame, all of it is girth. The Brembo levers are big, 8" long, the throttle is a 1/2 turn, not the 1/4 turn on the Guzzi.

Own one knowing you have a greater variety of machinery in the garage, which is very good. It makes you like each bike more.

Ciao, Steve G.

[mdude]

great Steve and Big J, thanks for the effort. very helpful and illuminating.

 

as I am 188 cm tall and a cool 100kgs with gear (and a frequent visitor of the local gym, an of course: local pub), the size shouldnt be a problem.

 

what you describes as handling issues would not be a big problem for me, cause I ride like a little girl. and I think I know what you mean, cause my V11 was an absolute pig in the twisties when I got it, running wide and scaring me all the time. better now.

 

is there any kind of tweaks to be made that makes it handle a bit better?

 

the noise thing: I willl love it, we live in times when a little bit of rebellion feels good sometimes. and I rather ride a roaring italian than a parping harley in that respect.

 

this is a link to the actual Jota

http://www.cbmma.net/Henrik/Laverda_Jota/2005-10-07/

 

and here is a pics of the 3C

 

[Baldini]

... The Jota has some battle scars, but nothing serious. The 3C appears to be mint.....

 

I never had one, but impressions of a couple of brief rides were a really lovely, creamy, smooth & powerful motor (let down by terrible on/off advance/retard stutter at lower revs - as others mention), a very tall, roomy riding position, but unlike Steve, I found handling wasn't very confidence inspiring, but maybe you get used to it - he's a longterm owner so should know best. As I recall they'll drag the alternator casing ridden hard & if they go down on that (righthand?) side can damage the crank...so maybe check for any evidence. A V11 is not so roomy, not so smooth a motor (apart from ign stutter). Longterm & used hard a sorted & cared for Guzzi is v solid. I haven't enough experience on the Laverda to know but my impression has been that the Laverda is more fragile, despite it's appearance of being hewn from solid. And I'm surprised Steve finds handling & stability so much superior to the V11 (unless he's simply comparing shaft/chain driven character?) - perhaps it depends on specific bike? Laverdas have a real presence & a lovely wail - it's the motor that makes them tho.

 

KB

[Guest Vince]

See if you can get in touch with any local Laverda nutters,but carefully they dont buy them out from under you,the Jota looks beautifully,they can be made to handle with carefully setting up and the John Wilson or Witt ignition are excellent,parts are easy to get,and the MSN list are very helpful,they are so addictive, if ever there was a bike made worth more than the sum of there parts these are them.

[Steve G.]

Looking at the pictures, there are things I don't care for with the Jota. The big one for me is the fact there's no air filter, just those silly bell-mouths. These engines are just like any other, the ingestion of dust means an early wearing out. Plus, the air box may be expensive to buy a new one. Another thing I don't care for with the Jota is that dent on the frame right side down tube, near the top. I personally would not buy this machine. It has an unkept aura about it.

The 3C appears, except for the shagged seat, to be in way nicer shape, and because it hasn't had to carry the distinction of being a Jota, has probably enjoyed owners with greater mechanical sympathy. The 3C would be a much more enjoyable of the two. A true Jota wants high octane as well. Buy a new seat and put on some Jota mufflers and it will make all the right sounds, believe it.

With regard to the handling of the Laverda, certainly getting new shocks would be the first order of the day. Laverda parts/supply legend Wolfgang Haerter is the North American rep for the new Koni shacks, re-named Ikon. 'Very' good prices. As well, worn swingarm bearings can send these into the dreaded rear end wobble if you hit a bump mid corner. New ones change this.

I would agree Baldini that the Moto Guzzi engine is truly made of granite, very tough, but as has been the case for it seems decades, Guzzi has sourced componentry sometimes based on price rather than quality. I would not consider a Moto Guzzi motorcycle, as a whole, especially a V11 based machine, to be as rugged as a Breganze Laverda.

When I mentioned the handling characteristics of these two machines, I think I mentioned the stabilty of a Laverda as much above average, but I did note that it's nimbleness was not on a par with the V11.

Ciao, Steve G.

[dhansen]

As seen today, Sept 3rd, att he Owls Head Transportaton Museum's annual Motorcycle Meet.

Sure sounded sweet.

[Steve G.]

As seen today, Sept 3rd, att he Owls Head Transportaton Museum's annual Motorcycle Meet.

Sure sounded sweet.

 

Mmmmm,

Interesting collection on this one. Fairing if off a 1980 Jota, fuel tank is off a 1980-82 Jota, side covers and tail piece are off a 1200 Mirage, frame color is that of a 120 degree SFC 1000, as is the box section swingarm and brake, body color is pre-1982 180 degree Jota, the engine could be either a 1200 or 1000, but is definitely post 1980, as it has the high output alternator with the ignition pickups on the left, as seen from the left primary cover. The wheels are non-Breganze, either that or they made some with an inner ridge that I've never seen before.

The Albert bar end mirror is quite cool, virtually unobtanium now.

Ciao, Steve G.

[mdude]

again, guys. thanks for all the shared experience. it helped a lot.

I'm currently negotiating with the owner of the 3C (and my wife...).

 

It has been Jota-fied somewhere along its history, apparently. With new pistons, cams and exhaust. All original parts comes with the bike. Despite the specs he describes it as very smooth and driveable.

The current owner rebuilt it two years ago with a huge amount of new rubber and fittings, blasted/powdercoated frame and all.

 

He is asking 4750 euros for it, but we'll see. (its not a bad price, considering its in expensive Scandinavia)

[Guest Vince]

Cannot comment on the price,don't know the market,couple of sites to check out are the MSN Laverda site run by Paul,very friendly and Laverdamania,all the smart mods are documented there,ask on the MSN site about prices in Europe.

[big J]

again, guys. thanks for all the shared experience. it helped a lot.

I'm currently negotiating with the owner of the 3C (and my wife...).

 

It has been Jota-fied somewhere along its history, apparently. With new pistons, cams and exhaust. All original parts comes with the bike. Despite the specs he describes it as very smooth and driveable.

The current owner rebuilt it two years ago with a huge amount of new rubber and fittings, blasted/powdercoated frame and all.

 

He is asking 4750 euros for it, but we'll see. (its not a bad price, considering its in expensive Scandinavia)

That doesn't seem so bad.What kind of money if you part-exchange the wife?