Diagnosis pls

[Bbennett]

Am now getting false upshifts and downshifts on my 2001 V11. 13K miles. Have never replaced the shifter spring.

 

Searched the forum for this answer - no luck

 

My (simple) questions is:

 

When the shifter spring fails is the bike disabled? I am not capable of a shade tree fix.

 

I need to know if I can keep riding the bike until my new spring arrives without worry about being disabled from this issue.

 

Thanks

Bob

[belfastguzzi]

From what I remember, looking at it, working at it and from other discussion on the forum, the spring is all or nothing. If it fails, the box won't shift.

 

The usual answer in this situation is – have you checked the external shift linkage for adjustment / nut coming loose / or even the eccentric adjuster nut itself?

[Guest Nogbad]

The shift spring won't fail gradually. One minute the box will work and the next it won't. I don't think the shift spring failure problem applies to all V11s just certain bikes with a particular spring / boss combination. Trouble is there is no way of knowing whether your bike is incubating this particular disease without stripping the cover.

[dlaing]

Try taking the linkage apart, cleaning it, lube lightly, reassemble.

A gear oil change would not hurt, either.

Redline shockproof, or quality gear oil with moly additive.

This thread has some good insight regarding moly and Shockproof

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ic=8897&hl=

Janusz turned some of us on to ShockProof a few years ago

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...pic=124&hl=

Others, like Hank and VKerrigan were also early pioneers in its use as was its greatest advocate, Ratchethack who has shared his valuable experience with us and been a great endorser of the product for years

http://www.redlineoil.com/

If anyone knows great prices on it, please share your source.

[Bbennett]

Thanks, I went over the linkage - tested it at the limits of the adjustable length tie-rod

and even experimented with the optional 2nd hole where the rearset connects to the shift linkage.

I could certainly "feel" the difference but the missed upshifts and downshifts re-occured in all positions

so I went back to the original length on the tie-rod. I miss a shift about 1 in 5 times. That is alot.

 

Experimented with the mysterius acorn. Removed it, saw the slotted end adjustment screw underneath - and in fact attached to the surrounding nut. Turned the slotted adjuster it and noted the cam-effect on the rest of the controls. As you turn the adjuster, the entire shaft rotates slightly, thus rotating the entire rearset around the main shaft. Yes, back and forth. Turn it too much and you get the opposite effect. Classic analog situation. Rode the bike at both ends of the adjustment and once could "feel" the difference when riding but it still experienced missed upshifts and downshifts at the limit of the adjuster (the total affect was within (1) 360 degree turn of the slotted adjuster. Put it back where it was.

 

I did *not* change the position of the entire adjustment linkage around the main transmission shaft.

 

I did *not* change the transmission oil.

 

So....I still have missed up and downshifts on a bike which til now had 13K of essentially flawless shifting. It happens commonly going into second gear on the upshift and into third or second on the downshift. It happens so often now I can 'feel' when I have missed going into gear, even though it feels partially "in". Sometimes I miss a gear going down and the net result is that I accidentally go down 2 gears - could be dangerous prior to going into a curve.

 

I believe I am back to where I started and have not made anything worse - 'cept for a little wear and tear on the head of the rearmost linkage bolt (tight fit even with SACHS cartidge temp. removed).

 

Could this be a clutch problem?

[TX REDNECK (R.I.P.)]

You're dogs is worn maybe

 

I'll let Pete explain as he has such a great way of explaining things

I'd change the gearbox oil first though. I changed the K bike to synthetic , big difference.

[Guest Nogbad]

 

Could this be a clutch problem?

 

It is certainly worth looking into. Try bleeding the clutch hydraulics first, and check the slave cylinder isn't leaking. Doubt you have worn dogs at that mileage unless you have no mechanical sympathy at all.

[richard100t]

Redline shockproof is $8 a quart where I am. Thats a lot of money for a quart of lube, but it may save you a lot of time & work trying to fix the problem in other ways. I switched to the redline & it does shift better. I also get better shifting when I wear my motorcycle boots. Put the shockproof in the rear drive while you're at it

[belfastguzzi]

I remembered a couple of other threads where there was a similar shifting problem at the same sort of mileage as yours.

 

I haven't read through the threads again so sorry if I get something wrong: as far as I remember, in one there was a problem because the roll pin that limits the movement of the selector arm had somehow dropped out. It's unlikely, but could that have happened?

 

Roll pin 'stop' is in top middle of this pic:

The thread is here:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...c=6123&st=0

 

In the other thread, it became clear that the roll pin was changed for an adjustable stop at some point.

 

If you have this, could it be out of adjustment, or even just out (as above)?

Thread is:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...%20pin&st=0

 

I don't know if this stop could give the missed shift problem but it's worth checking if you have the shift plate off.

[Bbennett]

You are exactly correct in your last post. I finally took the bike into Moto Int. in Seattle and they confirmed the roll pin had fallen out. They said I was lucky that it had not damaged anything upon exit. The bike is shifting perfectly again and my thanks to the Forum and to my dealer.

 

If YOU are experiencing a large number (1 in 8 shifts) going both up and down, please consider the possiblity that this pin has fallen out (see above post).

[belfastguzzi]

You are exactly correct in your last post. I finally took the bike into Moto Int. in Seattle and they confirmed the roll pin had fallen out. They said I was lucky that it had not damaged anything upon exit. The bike is shifting perfectly again and my thanks to the Forum and to my dealer.

 

If YOU are experiencing a large number (1 in 8 shifts) going both up and down, please consider the possiblity that this pin has fallen out (see above post).

 

Very interesting. Was there any opinion as to why this happened? Just wear and tear gradually making it loose? Was there any comment about the roll pin being changed to an an adjustable stop, as in second photo?

[Guzzirider]

I was having problems with downshifts, so I decided to examine the external gearchange assembly yesterday. After I removed the starter motor, I noticed that nut 15 (see attached diagram) had gone walkabouts. Luckily bolt 12 was hanging in loose keeping it all togther. I think the engine casing was stopping it from falling out. If I had lost that bolt whilst riding, the whole damn thing would have fallen apart.

 

I am sure its an isolated incident and its probably not worth your time taking the starter off and checking (although you may be able to see from the other side) but its worth making sure everything is tight next time you are fiddling down there for any reason.

 

Guy

gearchange.doc

[luhbo]

I've heard of people having lost bolt 17. They could continue the journey by using an other bolt from somewhere on the bike.

 

Hubert

[Guest ratchethack]

I was having problems with downshifts, so I decided to examine the external gearchange assembly yesterday. After I removed the starter motor, I noticed that nut 15 (see attached diagram) had gone walkabouts. Luckily bolt 12 was hanging in loose keeping it all togther. I think the engine casing was stopping it from falling out. If I had lost that bolt whilst riding, the whole damn thing would have fallen apart.

 

I am sure its an isolated incident and its probably not worth your time taking the starter off and checking (although you may be able to see from the other side) but its worth making sure everything is tight next time you are fiddling down there for any reason.

 

Guy

Not so isolated an incident. Nut #15 had started to loosen on my linkage about 10K miles ago, causing noticably sloppy shifting. This was during the heyday of the infamous pawl spring breakage reporting here, so I was relieved to find and solve the problem with threadlocker. Since this is a locking nut, it shouldn't come loose, yet it does. The identical situation happened to my Pal with the '04 LM just last weekend. The nut was almost all the way off and the linkage had become really sloppy, but he hadn't noticed any slop in the shifting. It's amazing what you'll tolerate when the symptoms come on very gradually. . . . .

 

It can be checked easily enough without removing the starter motor with a close inspection, but it has to come off for the fix. NOTE: I suggest DO NOT attempt to "short cut" a proper job by neglecting to remove the battery ground first.

 

Doing this fix is a good time to remove the shift lever itself and grease bolt #5, which is another thing that should have grease, yet comes dry from the factory. Setting the end float on this bolt will also tighten things up nicely, and further enhance the ability to get clean shifts.