Engine pinging

[Guest Eric123]

I have notice some pinging or knocking lately. I thought it was using garbage fuel--but I always use 93 octance (of course with 10% ethanol)--Any thoughts? The bike seems to be running and starting okay. I have noticed that is smells like it is running rich after a while--and the gas mileage doesn't seem to be so great (or it could be some heavy throttle). I hope it is not the ECU.

[rocketeer]

I have notice some pinging or knocking lately. I thought it was using garbage fuel--but I always use 93 octance (of course with 10% ethanol)--Any thoughts? The bike seems to be running and starting okay. I have noticed that is smells like it is running rich after a while--and the gas mileage doesn't seem to be so great (or it could be some heavy throttle). I hope it is not the ECU.

 

 

Skip the ethanol fuel and life will be good, even with regular.

[Guest Nogbad]

My V11 runs fine on 99 octane ethanolated fuel. My Buell likes it way better than any regular petrol.

 

Suggest you check that your air temperature and engine temperature sensors are working. If it seems to become too rich as it warms, and your mileage is bad, it sounds more like an engine temperature sensor issue than the wrong fuel.

[Guest Eric123]

Skip the ethanol fuel and life will be good, even with regular.

 

 

Thanks, but the problem is about 70-80% of the gas around here has ethanol pre-mixed. I guess I just need to cruise the gas stations looking for some with the alcohol. Of course faulty engine sensors would cause it to run rich--maybe its both. Wow, 99 octane--that must be some volitile stuff. Maybe make a good cocktail. . .

[Guest Nogbad]

Thanks, but the problem is about 70-80% of the gas around here has ethanol pre-mixed. I guess I just need to cruise the gas stations looking for some with the alcohol. Of course faulty engine sensors would cause it to run rich--maybe its both. Wow, 99 octane--that must be some volitile stuff. Maybe make a good cocktail. . .

 

It helps with pinging alright, but seriously, it is 10% ethanol mix and the V11 runs fine on it. Mine returns about 34 - 45 mpg (UK gallons - beware a US gallon is smaller!) and my tank range extreme is 160 miles. The Buell by comparison returns 55 - 65 mpg, makes more power and doesn't ping ever. So much for the "ancient" Harley-D mill then. The Buell book of words recommends ethanol mix over regular petrol. The V11 book of words is silent on the matter as you might expect.

 

I still think you need to check the engine temperature sensor if as you say your mileage is bad and your bike feels like it runs rich. A US gallon is 83.3% of a UK gallon, so your mileage should be i.r.o. 28 to 38 mpg. If it is worse than this, ethanol mix or not, there is a problem that needs investigating.

[dlaing]

My is betting on mis-set TPS.

Do you have a PCIII?

Have you had a tune-up recently?

[Guest Eric123]

My is betting on mis-set TPS.

Do you have a PCIII?

Have you had a tune-up recently?

 

Eh, no and no. I bought it from a guy who had it from new but only put 3200 miles on it or so before I bought it. He of course didn't have records but said it was serviced right before he put it up for sale. What is involved in a tune up (plugs, wires, filter, fluids, adjustments)? Oh and I don't have a PC III.

[dlaing]

Eh, no and no. I bought it from a guy who had it from new but only put 3200 miles on it or so before I bought it. He of course didn't have records but said it was serviced right before he put it up for sale. What is involved in a tune up (plugs, wires, filter, fluids, adjustments)? Oh and I don't have a PC III.

The service items that might effect pinging (in order of importance for your symptoms...IMHO)

Check TPS, balance throttle bodies, valve adjustment, check spark plug condition, make sure plug wires are snug, fuel filter, air filter, clean and lube electrical connections.

In order of what you should check:

spark plug condition, valve adjustment, plug wires, TPS, clean and lube electrical connections, fuel filter, air filter, balance throttle bodies. (but note throttle balancing is important, it is just at the end because the other services could upset the balance.)

[Allan1956]

Mates and I just returned from a 5500klm trip to the Phillip Island GP. One of the mates has a balabio which has been pinging so we called into a GUZZI mechanic we know (AND TRUST).

To get rid of the pinging he says you need to:

connect some piping from the airbox inlets to the front of the bike so that when you are travelling the air is being forced into the airbox. Ram air I think that Japs call it on their bikes. He did mention to my friend the type and dimension of the flexible piping but I have a FBF open airbox so wasn't taking too much notice at the time.

Would be worth a try though.

 

Average mileage on the whole trip about 50mpg. The balabio slightly better. The bloody Ducatis where getting about 60mpg and we weren't mucking around either.

 

Hope this helps

[luhbo]

...

To get rid of the pinging he says you need to:

connect some piping from the airbox inlets to the front of the bike so that when you are travelling the air is being forced into the airbox. Ram air I think that Japs call it on their bikes. He did mention to my friend the type and dimension of the flexible piping but I have a FBF open airbox so wasn't taking too much notice at the time.

Would be worth a try though....

 

I wouldn't rely on this. People believe two things: first - pinging comes from too lean a mixture and second - they believe that RAM-Air "rams" more air in your airbox. More air means leaner.

 

So what? Something can't be right here, right?

 

If he recommends a flexible hose then you could as well make your nozzle openings smaller. Same effect. This would explain how he can cure pinging this way.

 

Hubert

 

And regardless whether you mean US or GB gallons, both values are not that bad, 50 miles/US-gallon is excellent in fact!

Ducatis are cheaters, you should know

[Skeeve]

connect some piping from the airbox inlets to the front of the bike so that when you are travelling the air is being forced into the airbox. Ram air I think that Japs call it on their bikes. He did mention to my friend the type and dimension of the flexible piping but I have a FBF open airbox so wasn't taking too much notice at the time.

Would be worth a try though.

 

What he's saying [routing the intake so it's drawing in cool air from the front of the vehicle instead of hot air from over the cylinders] isn't "ram air!" FWIW, "ram air" doesn't depend on forcing air into the airbox anyhow; the name isn't very accurate, in that respect, but it's what we've got to work with, so there it is.

 

That solution for pinging is predicated upon cooling the intake charge, and is really only applicable if you're only experiencing the pinging when trundling slowly along in heavy traffic; at anything much over 25mph, the airflow past the bike/cylinders isn't going to allow for hot air getting into the airbox anyhow. If you're riding along at 60mph & 100 Fdeg (40C?) ambient and getting pinging, then pulling 100deg air from in front of the bike isn't going to make any difference to the pinging vs. 100.5 degree air from right over the cylinders, now is it?

 

WRT the original question, "How can I solve this?":

 

Like someone else pointed out, 1st thing is to make sure your TPS is set correctly & throttle bodies balanced, and that you've got your tappets adjusted to the "world spec" settings.

 

Buy a can of toluene (in the paint supply section, aka "toluol"; it's an aromatic hydrocarbon much like benzene & xylene) and add some to your gas. Straight toluene has an octane rating of about 120; if you live someplace where you can buy decent gasoline in the 1st place, it won't have a large effect & you'll have to add more, but in places like Calif. w/ it's cr@p gas, it'll have a noticeable effect. At $8? $10? $12? a quart, it's not cheap, but it's less ex$pen$ive than the $10 pint of "octane boost 104" or whatever that's the "branded" high price version of the paint solvent.

 

Beyond this, you're looking at ever increasing orders of complexity & cost: Power Commanders, TuneBoys, Mike Rich pistons and/or head work, etc. etc. etc.

 

Best o' luck!

[Alex-Corsa]

I have notice some pinging or knocking lately. I thought it was using garbage fuel--but I always use 93 octance (of course with 10% ethanol)--Any thoughts?

 

Is Guzzi supported to burn 93 octane?Higher octane and better quality fuel sounds like the solution to me.

[Skeeve]

Is Guzzi supported to burn 93 octane?Higher octane and better quality fuel sounds like the solution to me.

 

Alex: Here in the States, pump octane is an average of the Research (aka "made up") & Manual (aka "test") octane numbers, expressed on the side of the pump as (MON+RON)/2. My understanding is that in Europe the RON is the number on the pump, so the octane numbers in Europe are consistently higher for what is the same grade of fuel Stateside. This in turn is complicated by places like California which mandate "oxygenated" fuels (aka "cut it w/ alcohol or ketones & f!ck everyone's mileage") which even tho' they may have octane ratings that are as high as real gasoline, burn much leaner (hotter) than the real deal & consequently contribute to pinging in vehicles that aren't water-cooled...

[Alex-Corsa]

Alex: Here in the States, pump octane is an average of the Research (aka "made up") & Manual (aka "test") octane numbers, expressed on the side of the pump as (MON+RON)/2. My understanding is that in Europe the RON is the number on the pump, so the octane numbers in Europe are consistently higher for what is the same grade of fuel Stateside. This in turn is complicated by places like California which mandate "oxygenated" fuels (aka "cut it w/ alcohol or ketones & f!ck everyone's mileage") which even tho' they may have octane ratings that are as high as real gasoline, burn much leaner (hotter) than the real deal & consequently contribute to pinging in vehicles that aren't water-cooled...

 

Well that explains it.

[Ouiji Veck]

"Like someone else pointed out, 1st thing is to make sure your TPS is set correctly & throttle bodies balanced, and that you've got your tappets adjusted to the "world spec" settings"

 

Zackly...tune it and loosen up those valves.

Cured mine completly...I could probably run kerosene now...like a guzzi should.