How to go from hero to zero in 3 dyno runs

[Guest Huey130]

Story (posted with the owners permission):

I own a performance shop specializing in roadracing and tuning. Mostly Japanese but everynow and then some other stuff shows up. Like this:

Customer comes in with 2002 LeMans. Bought new in 2004.

He's the second owner from 6 months ago. 6126 miles of which he's put 500 on.

 

I throw his bike on my DynoJet 250i for a HP, torque and A/F "fun run".

I do 3 pulls on his already warmed up bike and got the following:

Click for dyno chart.

(Run 2 was an oops on the button. I just left it in so you wouldn't think something sneaky had happened.)

The first run went to the limiter. The next few I rolled out at the redline on the gauge.

HP seemed low to me but the AF looked good so: customer was happy, I was happy, everyone was happy.

 

Until:

Uhhhhh oooh.

He got 15 min down the road and a rod started knocking.

He brought it right back and this is what we found.

Looks like a big end of a con rod started letting loose.

 

So:

We're all agreed (customer, myself and my service manager) that 3 dyno runs do not an engine break.

What does? I've read as much as I can on this site (very nice BTW) and saw the oiling issues and con rod recall but nothing for these newer models.

Any ideas? Anyone heard of such happening?

We're tearing down for an obvious rebuild but I'd like to know what could of started this in the first place.

 

Any suggestions? Something to look for? Direction to head (other than the obvious).

 

Thanks for reading,

Huey

[Guest Mattress]

Possibly the con-rod bearing was marginal to begin with before dyno testing.

 

Possible cause? Oil starvation in past life? I bought my 04 V11 with 0 miles new. 2000 miles with mostly low to medium loads (break in period) consumed enough oil I had to add a quart. I orginal owner was really fanging it and not careful about oil level he could have starved the bearing.

 

With low enough oil a V11 will light up the oil pressure idiot light, especially with a full throttle blast.

 

Also: maybe oil pressure idiot light not working? And does anyone know if it uses a pressure transducer or is it a switch (single set point)?

[dean rose]

I understand that the V11s need a splash plate to prevent oil starvation on hard acceleration. Pete Roper has some made up and will be shipping them soon soon. He's in England now looking after his mum.

[Tom M]

One possibility is the internal oil filter came loose, the engine lost oil pressure and the rider ignored the oil pressure warning light (if working) and continued to ride. I believe Greg Field has seen a few V11's come through his shop that fell victim to this scenario. Hopefully he be along to chip in on this soon...

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

I understand that the V11s need a splash plate to prevent oil starvation on hard acceleration.

 

This would not apply on the dyno as the bike itself does not accelerate.

 

I have had Guzzi's on the dyno a few times and no ill effects.

[Guest Huey130]

I understand that the V11s need a splash plate to prevent oil starvation on hard acceleration. Pete Roper has some made up and will be shipping them soon soon. He's in England now looking after his mum.

 

 

Girls Feck ARSE!!!

Hahaha. Yes some Yanks know who Father Jack is.

(For those not in the know I'm laughing at Mr. Rose's avatar).

 

Thanks for the ideas. Keep em coming. I really appreciate them.

I feel bad for this customer and hope to get him back on the road happy and soon.

 

PS he is a member here and has a Cali model also!

[badmotogoozer]

Huey - It is great to see a m/c business man going to these lengths to help out a customer who has a problem that most likely you had nothing to do with. It is very refreshing to know there are places out there who still go to this trouble.

 

We have a few exceptionally good dealers and service people who hang out here too.

 

cheers & welcome,

 

Rj

[Guest Nogbad]

RWHP looks normal to me for a standard V11. I had mine Dynoed at Max Moto and they got a best run of 72 RWHP. Claimed by Guzzi is 90 at the crank, the shaft drive isn't the most efficient thing so a loss of 18 through the tranny isn't that exceptional.

 

There was a rod recall for stretchy bolts (I think) but this only seemed to apply to early models. But I guess Mandello is fairly disorganised so maybe luigi found some soft bolts on the floor and used them. Anything can happen.

 

Mine survived a good dyno thrash, although I found it hard to watch the torture.......

[Guest Huey130]

Thanks for the compliment.

I may have a shop, work in the AMA roadrace paddock (I'm Blake Young's lead mechanic), and blah blah blah. But first and foremost I'm just like y'all: a raving lunatic about bikes.

 

Anywho:

So it was a big end bearing.

Plot thickens: How would a joe-blow like myself know if a Gizzi has been "built"? The intake tracts look hand ported. There's a numbering mark on the con rod... Some of the stock bolt heads are a bit "rounder" than should be after an assembly. Any tell tell sign to a non-stocker? (PS you show me a Suzuki GSX-R and I'll not only tell you IF its been built but probably who built it based upon the assembly! Hahahaha).

[Paul Minnaert]

the engine has to be dismanteled a bit more to know what happend. Low oil levels give big end problems. Because there was a first owner, we will never know if something has gone wrong in the past. You can change the bigend shells from the bottom. but changing without knowing why they wnat wrong is not a great idea in the long run.

[Greg Field]

Yes, we've seen more'n a few V11 Sports start a'knockin'. Surely, though, all these were caused by owner error 'cause a Guzzi'd never misbehave.

 

Here's the count this summer:

 

Two bikes with torched bearings caused by gaskets that split or got spit out

 

Two bikes with torched rod bearings caused by filters that backed off

 

One bike with torched bearings that was prone to oil-light flicker

 

One bike with torched bearings from unknown cause (this was beauchemin from this list; he never mentioned oil-light flicker)

 

Fortunately the bearings are cheap. The rod bolts are not, and it is recommended that you change them.

[Guest Nogbad]

Yes, we've seen more'n a few V11 Sports start a'knockin'. Surely, though, all these were caused by owner error 'cause a Guzzi'd never misbehave.

 

Here's the count this summer:

 

Two bikes with torched bearings caused by gaskets that split or got spit out

 

Two bikes with torched rod bearings caused by filters that backed off

 

One bike with torched bearings that was prone to oil-light flicker

 

One bike with torched bearings from unknown cause (this was beauchemin from this list; he never mentioned oil-light flicker)

 

Fortunately the bearings are cheap. The rod bolts are not, and it is recommended that you change them.

 

Not really encouraging given the relatively small number of V11 variants there are. I guess the famed reliability is "perception overhang" from the Tonti's...........

[Greg Field]

Nog:

 

Reliability of these bikes is fine. We see a lot of Guzzis at Moto Intl. Some Guzzi shops may not service six V11s in a summer. We service that many a day sometimes. One day we had five green 2000 Sports here. That was a purty sight. The numbers we see ensure that we see more problems than other individuals and shops see. We sell 20 percent of the Guzzis sold in the US and probably get an equal percentage of the service business. This is why I frequently am able to warn you about things so many others scoff at 'cause they've never seen them, yet.

[Guest Mattress]

I understand that the V11s need a splash plate to prevent oil starvation on hard acceleration. Pete Roper has some made up and will be shipping them soon soon. He's in England now looking after his mum.

 

AH HA!!! Is that what these "Sloppage Plates" are? I clicked and clicked through a thread trying to figure out what the hell people were talking about, but to no luck!

 

I wondered what was so special about a Pommie plate for porridge!

[Ryland3210]

AH HA!!! Is that what these "Sloppage Plates" are? I clicked and clicked through a thread trying to figure out what the hell people were talking about, but to no luck!

 

I wondered what was so special about a Pommie plate for porridge!

 

See also other threads on Sloppage sheets for details and also on oil filter cover and other threads concerning inaccurate dipstick full marks. My '04 Cafe Sport's full mark is 0.69 inches below actual, when screwed in as my manual instructs. If I went by that, I'd always have far too little in the sump, much worse if I let it go down to the low mark. I'm making my own marks When filled with 3.5 liters as the same manual specifies, oil level is still safely .33 inches below the sump to block gasket, where the Sloppage sheet is intended to go.