How to go from hero to zero in 3 dyno runs

[Guest davidb]

There was a recall/swap for the cases in 2004. Check to see if the cases have been replaced because of blistered paint.

[dlaing]

Thanks Paul, but I don't know the difference. Do you have a picture of the internals somewhere? But you mean they use genuine Guzzi parts under such harsh conditions? Hard to believe, isn't it?

 

They had an engine cut open in the shop in front of the photo room, but I can't remember the pan. I was so fixed for the combustion chamber by some reasons that I completely forgot to have a look at the sump. Pity...

This was posted in the longest of the sloppage sheet threads:

Pretty clearly a better design, possibly at the price of either ground clearance or center of gravity

Here it is superimposed to show how much deeper it is and how the pickup is further back....It may be off by a few millimeters

Note: I lined it up with the bulges of the upper bolt sleeves. Scale could be quite a bit different.

[DeBenGuzzi]

wow, impressive, think that pan and innards might bolt onto our V11's? what new pan oil funnel thingy good to go maybe? not cheap by ANY strech of hte imagination I'm sure, make a slopage sheets look like penny candy.

[pete roper]

The new sump, (and all it's internal stuff.) will bolt up to a V11 block I'm almost certain but the new sump is considerably deeper and would severely compromise ground clearance I think. Hitting the picks really hard coming into a corner and having the sump rub on the road is *not* a good look

 

While I haven't actually done any measuring for comparison I think that the Breva and Griso motors sit a fair bit higher in the new frames allowing the use of the new, deeper, sump. I can only assume that since the adoption of the alternator in the valley of the motor it was considered that worrying about a lower centre of gravity was tossed out the window. Having said that I in no way feel that the handling of my Griso is in any way compromised by this. Mind you, as I often state, I ride like Gumby so it probably wouldn't make any noticeable difference to me if I had a baby elephant sitting on the tank

 

Pete

[luhbo]

This was posted in the longest of the sloppage sheet threads:

...

 

Sorry, Dave, I've already forgotten it. Thanks for the hint.

 

What is a bit eyecatching in this design, at least to my eyes, is the brittle copper connection. They sure know how to mount it without tensioning it, do they?

 

Hubert

[dlaing]

Sorry, Dave, I've already forgotten it. Thanks for the hint.

 

What is a bit eyecatching in this design, at least to my eyes, is the brittle copper connection. They sure know how to mount it without tensioning it, do they?

 

Hubert

I hope so.

I also hope that turtle shell is not an air trap depriving the oil system of oil after an oil change

[Paul Minnaert]

Thanks Paul, but I don't know the difference. Do you have a picture of the internals somewhere? But you mean they use genuine Guzzi parts under such harsh conditions? Hard to believe, isn't it?

well an exploded view. part 3 is the oil pickup.

[Greg Field]

Re; Filters loosening.

 

Never a filter installed at Moto Intl. or my home shop. The three this summer were all filters installed by guys just like you all: longtime, experienced owners who are not stupid and know how to tighten an oil filter. They had each changed countless filters in the past, and those filters did not loosen. This one time, a filter did. Could they have, for some unknown reason, undertightened them this time? Certainly. And so could you one time. Coud there have been something about the construction of the filter that caused it to loosen? Sure, I guess. I didn't get to see the filters, but I did get to see the trashed rod bearings.

[luhbo]

Re; Filters loosening.

 

Never a filter installed at Moto Intl. or my home shop. The three this summer were all filters installed by guys just like you all: longtime, experienced owners who are not stupid and know how to tighten an oil filter. They had each changed countless filters in the past, and those filters did not loosen. This one time, a filter did. Could they have, for some unknown reason, undertightened them this time? Certainly. And so could you one time. Coud there have been something about the construction of the filter that caused it to loosen? Sure, I guess. I didn't get to see the filters, but I did get to see the trashed rod bearings.

 

So I see no reason why anybody should secure his oil filter with what ever you tell him. How about the risks of loosing the security straps?

 

I say you have seen nothing that could be worth this risk and at all nothing what would be worth this forum loathing.

 

Think about someone loosing his trousers. Not funny for him, but it can happen. But the same fellow falling over his silly trouser holder straps and so braking his thump - absolutely priceless!

 

Hubert

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Re; Filters loosening.

 

Never a filter installed at Moto Intl. or my home shop. The three this summer were all filters installed by guys just like you all: longtime, experienced owners who are not stupid and know how to tighten an oil filter. They had each changed countless filters in the past, and those filters did not loosen. This one time, a filter did. Could they have, for some unknown reason, undertightened them this time? Certainly. And so could you one time. Coud there have been something about the construction of the filter that caused it to loosen? Sure, I guess. I didn't get to see the filters, but I did get to see the trashed rod bearings.

 

 

 

Since lately this mainly seems to occur , in your experience to filters put on by experienced owners perhaps you need not bother with the filter trick yourself. Unless of course you put much creedance in the "guess' about defective filter construction.

 

While I have not seen this first hand in our area, almost all of the current rash of reports seems to come from the Seattle area. I will continue to properly tighten the filters here in Michigan where they never seem to fail . Most of reports of spin off filters are from the automotive quick change operations. It has been rumored many of these are merely frauds where the owners are seeking a free, new engine. Your connection to the expeience level may be an important finding. The people working in the oil change bays are for the most part very seasoned, caring people, That may well account for the problem. Now the malady seems to have crossed species and infected the motorcycle world with the most experienced being first infected. Seattle being the epicenter for the largest outbreak.

Here in Michigan we are trying a new, experimental vaccine. So far it has been 100% effective in prevention when properly applied. Even with all my experience I feel safe. My "guess" is it is more geographic in origin than an "experienced owner" malady. With that being a possibility perhaps you should keep using those clamps anyhow. It may well be purely geographical . Your limited experience may not protect you from the pitfalls of "longtime experienced owners", if indeed it is purely a geo phenomenon rather than a combination of the two as you allude. As with any outbreak it is once again a guessing game.

 

People are hard at work in that area in a valiant attempt to contain this mysterious rash of failures. They are the cutting edge and our first line of defense.

 

The underfunded Center for Oil Filter Control will no doubt issue a belated advisory for the Northwest and folks who may be exposed to the Northwest. It may encompass even more than just the mysterious unscrewing filter thing. Right now they are working with the CDC to ban spinach due to a rash of Ecoli somewhere in the West that has made all spinach highly suspect. Especially spinach grown by longtime experienced spinach farmers.

 

While hope springs from the research in the Midwest that the rest of the world will not have to resort to the risky tactics currently being used. Sometimes the side effects of crude drugs are worse than the malady itself. We are hoping the more natural cure, so far 100% effective will continue to hold up. If it does we can all ride easy as we have done for so long.

In the meantime those in low risk groups may prefer to avoid the risky side effects of some of the radical preventative measures taken in high risk areas by high risk individuals. IMEO.

 

No need here for the Acme hose clamps, but I am buying stock in the company

 

 

 

 

Just too much fun!

 

 

I hope so.

I also hope that turtle shell is not an air trap depriving the oil system of oil after an oil change

 

 

Perhaps a small bleed hole at the highest point of the shell?

[Guest Nogbad]

well an exploded view. part 3 is the oil pickup.

 

Interesting exploded diagram and photo. Wow, that design looks so expensive to make!

[Greg Field]

Just a worthless, minor correction to Gary's immutably brilliant post: I never said all three were in the Seattle area. I said all three happened to people I know. Only one backed off filter was from a guy in the Seattle area, for the record. His filter backed off about 150 miles from home, while headed toward Denver. Hmmmm . . . how did an undertightened filter last through a week of daily driving and then carry him so far, over mountain passes and all? Only Gary knows.

 

All the other stuff about split filters and flickering oil lights and unknown causes torching bearings were in the Seattle area. Only Gary works on more Guzzis than Moto I does, so he alone can tell you if this is typical outside the Seattle oil convergence zone.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Just a worthless, minor correction to Gary's immutably brilliant post: I never said all three were in the Seattle area. I said all three happened to people I know. Only one backed off filter was from a guy in the Seattle area, for the record. His filter backed off about 150 miles from home, while headed toward Denver. Hmmmm . . . how did an undertightened filter last through a week of daily driving and then carry him so far, over mountain passes and all? Only Gary knows.

All the other stuff about split filters and flickering oil lights and unknown causes torching bearings were in the Seattle area. Only Gary works on more Guzzis than Moto I does, so he alone can tell you if this is typical outside the Seattle oil convergence zone.

 

I stand corrected . We can now narrow the most recent outbreak down to "experienced OWNERS" Sounds like you are still quite safe in that event Greg.

It is very easy to understand how an under tightened filter would do as you have said, thank you. I am sure I am not the only one who understands that . So I must ,once again correct you. I'am not sure how your band aid however fixes a " flickering light" or a split filter. I have seen what some refer to as a split seal, it was actually TWO seals. The operator simply neglected to notice that the first filter had left it's seal in place. We can now chalk up the source of your experiences as people you know. As with many ort breaks and sysndromes maistakes are made as to the location. As more is learned the cause however is more readily identified. I bow to your superior sources of hear-say. After all you did see the bearings and deduced a clamp could have saved them. I'm not at all familiar with the combined experience of the shop you may work at. However shops abilities are seldom the sum of their combined experience. It simply is not a linear function.

Still, I stand by the fact that a properly tightened filter will not fall off in any event, and that any person who needs to rely upon such a band aid should not be relied upon to properly tighten the hose clamp . Corrections are seldom worthless especially when they are noted and honestly accepted .

By now I figure anyone who feels the need will, Those who think the filters will stay put as they always have for them will continue to tighten them. As a side note hose clamp manufacturers, recognizing the fact that thermal and pressure cycling of worm drive clamps can actually cause them to loosen now offer prevailing pressure clamps. Since it is possible, even likely that a pressurized steel canister within an engine could see more severe cycling than a clamp around a rubber hose (as designed). It may help in avoiding the real possibility of a hose clamp falling off and doing it's share of damage.

Kind of like the tripping over your suspenders thing already mentioned.

Life is good for those who do as they should.

 

 

Oh Greg, Immutably ??? Immutable? Times TWO

[Guest Nogbad]

I never heard of a car filter unscrewing. On the other hand, the designers of the Norton Commando saw fit to provide a steel blade specifically to fix the filter cartridge with a hose clamp.

 

Many modern Japs have sticky out frontwards cartridge filters with no clamp and they don't unscrew. However, you can see them, and you would notice a weep.

 

The fact that the Guzzi filter is inside, out of sight and out of mind MAYBE would justify a clamp, but I can see the argument that it is belt and braces on a pair of trousers that might only fall down every 100 years.

 

If a clamp makes you feel better, put one on. If not, leave it standard, you will in all probability not live to regret either course.

[Greg Field]

In all things, only Gary knows best. Just ask him.