Ohlins rant, or

[Paul Minnaert]

well, if you know what you want, an öhlins can be made at your specs. And since there are so much arround, a lot of people are able to do this. I don't think any revalved Marzocchi forks come near a standard öhlins one. What all makes need is the proper spring for riding style and weight. For track use I have 11 nm springs in the forks, when I go touring to Mandelo, I could have used softer ones.

[Guest drknow]

well, if you know what you want, an öhlins can be made at your specs. And since there are so much arround, a lot of people are able to do this. I don't think any revalved Marzocchi forks come near a standard öhlins one. What all makes need is the proper spring for riding style and weight. For track use I have 11 nm springs in the forks, when I go touring to Mandelo, I could have used softer ones.

 

I respectfully disagree. I've ridden revalved and sprung marzocchi's that were far superior to the standard Guzzi Ohlins, which really come poorly valved and sprung. But, since the Marzocchi's come stock with worse valving and the same soft springs, the Ohlins are a noticible improvement from stock to stock.

 

I should repeat. The Ohlins bikes are fine. If you get or have one, keep it. But if you're thinking of upgrading, save the money, buy a Penske rear shock and revalve and respring the Marzocchi forks. You'll be ahead.

 

Now if you're talking Ohlins Superbike forks, that's a different deal altogether. But those are $9500 a pop, and don't really figure into this conversation.

 

I have a Scura. I'm not getting rid of the forks or the shock. I'll fix the shock and forks and be happy. I've owned Aprilia Mille's and always bought the base model, choosing to not spend money on the Ohlins. I just wish I would have followed my previous practices when I bought my Kawasaki shock. I have no one to blame but myself...

 

YMMV.

 

Ride safe, Keep the rubber side down.

 

dk

[dlaing]

Maybe you would sell your Ohlins and put the proceeds towards a Penske

Thanks for nudging to call about the Penske. The experiences Mike Stewart had getting it to work put me off.

Also, the experiences many people had of getting the damping right from the Pros make me sceptical.

I am still waiting to hear back from LE about the possibility of a WP shock, which at ~$100 less than Wilbers with same features, would be a great deal.

They just don't know if getting the right dimensions is doable.

[Guest drknow]

Maybe you would sell your Ohlins and put the proceeds towards a Penske

Thanks for nudging to call about the Penske. The experiences Mike Stewart had getting it to work put me off.

Also, the experiences many people had of getting the damping right from the Pros make me sceptical.

I am still waiting to hear back from LE about the possibility of a WP shock, which at ~$100 less than Wilbers with same features, would be a great deal.

They just don't know if getting the right dimensions is doable.

 

I do like WP, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. Ask Jim Lindemann about KTM NA and WP. If they have a V11 shock, then cool beans, but keep your fingers crossed until it's in your hot little hands. I've been trying to buy a Comp WP for Britt's RS125 for months. Essentially you need to know someone from somewhere other than the US.

[dlaing]

I do like WP, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. Ask Jim Lindemann about KTM NA and WP. If they have a V11 shock, then cool beans, but keep your fingers crossed until it's in your hot little hands. I've been trying to buy a Comp WP for Britt's RS125 for months. Essentially you need to know someone from somewhere other than the US.

I just sent Jim another email.

I have been waiting to hear back from him contacting WP since early August.

(WP follows European holiday schedule )

If it does not work, I may go for Penske.

I tried going for Works Performance and HyperPro, but I could not get a straight answer from either of them on being able to match my desired dimensions.

I really would like to know Ratchethack's Wilbers' dimensions.

If they are identical to the Sachs, that might not be too bad.

And if they have a progressive spring available like the hyperpro, all the more better...for my likes...

[Guest drknow]

I just sent Jim another email.

I have been waiting to hear back from him contacting WP since early August.

(WP follows European holiday schedule )

If it does not work, I may go for Penske.

I tried going for Works Performance and HyperPro, but I could not get a straight answer from either of them on being able to match my desired dimensions.

I really would like to know Ratchethack's Wilbers' dimensions.

If they are identical to the Sachs, that might not be too bad.

And if they have a progressive spring available like the hyperpro, all the more better...for my likes...

 

Oh, um, hate to break it to ya, but I've had emails from WP since then. I think it's just that Jim has to email KTM NA to get any response. They could give a shit, so you're probably outta luck.

 

Call Penske. Get your questions answered, then order it from your favorite source. I prefer GP Suspension. They rock and are very customer service oriented. Dave is a gruff sort, but a very good guy. Penske doesn't sponsor me, in fact I pay more for their stuff than Ohlins, just giving you my feedback.

 

On a related note. Dave from GP called me tonight! He was back from a race weekend and found that my shock was leaking after replacing all the seals and making sure the hydraulic preload adjuster wasn't leaking. It seems that they have been turning out quite a few models that crack and leak around the compression adjuster. If I was down on Ohlins before, imagine what I think now. At this point I may not make my races next weekend, and can kiss any Kawasaki contingency money goodbye. I will be on the phone to Ohlins on Monday...

[dlaing]

At this point I may not make my races next weekend, and can kiss any Kawasaki contingency money goodbye. I will be on the phone to Ohlins on Monday...

Is the Kawasaki stock shock that bad?

[Guest ratchethack]

I really would like to know Ratchethack's Wilbers' dimensions.

If they are identical to the Sachs, that might not be too bad.

And if they have a progressive spring available like the hyperpro, all the more better...for my likes...

Dave, I thought this was covered in another thread on the topic, but when ordering a Wilbers shock, it's both a config-to-order and build-to-order operation. You can have any critical dimension you specify (within the limitations of common - and even uncommon - motorcycle application), including shock body length and travel.

 

You can also specify dimensions beyond stock that IMHO would be very unwise, as I mentioned above. Can't tell from y'er post above, but I don't know if you understood my point about longer travel shocks than stock being inadvisable for many reasons on shaft drive bikes -- particularly with Guzzi, because of the Guzzi's unusually short swingarm, which makes such considerations even more risky.

 

Keep in mind that the driveline angles at the limits with the full floating hub of the V11 are far greater than they were with the fixed bevel drive units of the Tontis, because the length of the driveshaft has been effectively shortened even further by a whopping 18.5 cm to accomodate the full-floating bevel drive. U-joints are particularly sensitive to the angles of operation they're subjected to. The principle involved here is that the shorter the effective driveline, the less suspension travel is allowed by the U-joints. Ask any 4-wheel-drive offroad enthusiast what happens to U-joints on the short front driveshaft compared to the longer rear driveshaft when you go too far with driveline angles by installing long-travel suspension.

 

I'm not referring to driveline angles achieved by laden sag on the Guzzi. I'm referring to the sudden driveline angles they're subjected to on uneven, rough surfaces at top-out and bottom-out, where catastrophic U-joint failure has the potential of ruining y'er whole day. . . . .

 

I was only slightly disappointed to learn that Wilbers doesn't offer progressively wound springs on their shocks. I ordered model 641, which doesn't have adjustable eye-to-eye length (it can be added), but has rebound damping and both high and low speed compression damping adjustability. The straight-rate spring I got is 9.5 Nm.

 

It's an impressively designed unit and appears to be of very high quality. I've been dialing in preload gradually, making adjustments and taking measurements. I haven't been able to spend enough time with it yet, but with each preload adjustment it's getting closer to the optimum achievable for my weight based on laden and unladen sags. I don't know what the stock Sachs spring rate was, but it was clearly far below 9.5 Nm, and required an inordinate amount of preload to get the laden sag in the correct range. Of course this meant the unladen sag had to be off the charts on the low end. . . .

 

Seat-o-the pants impressions so far are that the Wilbers is already a more compliant and far more comfortable ride.

 

BTW, I weighed the bevel box of my Pal's LM this weekend: When y'er considering such things as ounces of unsprung weight (which is after all, perfectly reasonable to think about), consider that the rear wheel by itself is already very much overweight (by modern HyperBike standards). Then consider that it's got an additional 20 lb. bevel box affixed to its hub!!

 

I suggest that -- beyond the safety and functional considerations re-stated above -- the very idea of chasing perfection of rear suspension by going to a longer-travel shock than stock with this kind of a "boat anchor" at the center of things is a little bit of the same kind of wishful thinking that a boob-job would make Great Grandma into a real contender in the wet T-shirt contest . . . . .

[Greg Field]

I got to go on my first longish solo ride on the Billy Bob this weekend, which meant I didn't have anybody to slow me down or to wait for, and I could stop anywhere I wanted, play with suspension settings, and then re-try the same set of bumps at the same speed. Here was the baseline:

 

I've got the Ohlins on the front from a Cafe Sport. I replaced the springs with 10.5 NM Ohlins springs and set the air gap at 105 mm. per the Guzzi book. I put all pre-load and damping settings to stock, per the Cafe Sport book: ?? clicks on compression and rebound and ??mm preload (can't remember and am too lazy to look it up).

 

I've got a rear Ohlins that was taken off a Scura under warranty and which sat in the Moto Intl' scrap heap until I plucked it out and sent it to GP Suspension to be rebuilt. At the same time, I asked them to revalve it to reduce high-speed compression damping, per recommendationd here. I got the shock back, and it worked OK for two months before blowing out catastrophically while rifing two-up. This first round was with the stock Scura spring of 8.5 NM. I weigh 235, so it was inadequate in rate. I sent it to GP, and they were really excellent about fixing it fast and getting it back to me. I shipped it on Thursday and had it back in my hands the following Tuesday, no charge. I replaced the spring with an 11 NM spring and set to the book settings for the Cafe Sport: 13mm preload and 13 click on compression and rebound.

 

(As an aside, I cycled the shock before adding the spring. I had to lean on it with all my weight to get it to give at all against the nitrogen pressure and compression damping. That's one stiff mother.)

 

So, I left on a fast, 400-ish mile afternoon ride up to Mt. Baker (it's as good as Palomar) and played with it a bit. The fork worked best with 3 clicks less than stock on compression and four clicks more rebound than stock. It then worked absolutely awesome, in the street sense. Way better than the late Marzocchis that had been given a stiffer spring and on which I had played with fluid viscosity. Maybe the later Ohlins as on the Cafe Sport are valved better than those on the Scura? Don't know, but they are a non-issue now. You don't notice the front suspension at all, which is wht you're after. They work so well that they negate effects of all but the absolute worst bumps.

 

The rear is way better but still not great. To get it the best it can be, I reduced compression damping to fully off and cranked rebound up to 9 clicks from full-on. It works really well until the bumps get deep or there's a fast chopiness to the pavement, then it's overwhelmed by the 50 pounds cycling up and down. Still, hugely improved over stock.

 

Are Ohlins worth it? At the front, yes. And if you really want them to work better, they sell re-valving kits and even upgrades for radial brakes and Superbike internals. I'm not gonna bother. If the rear blows again, I'll likely go for a Wilbers.

 

Dave:

 

Moto Intl. uses GP Suspension because they've always done well by us and our customers, so I used them for my own shock. They said it was just a bad seal. We will see if this one lasts.

[Guest drknow]

Well, Dave at GP Suspension was on the phone early to Ohlins on my behalf, and talked them into pulling a shock apart with the "updated" compression adjuster housing, as all the spare parts they have prone to cracking. They are overnighting that to him, at least, so I'll only be out the labor for Dave. As he's the only one I will let work on my stuff, that's worth it. We'll see if the thing is in my hot little hands by Thursday, but it's now hopeful.

 

Dlaing, the stock Kawi shock is worse than the stock V11 shock, and I'd have to buy a special spring for it. Then, I'd get 4 laps at race pace and the damping would go off, plus it's WAAAAAAY too short.

 

Greg, glad you got set up with Ohlins. If you talk to the right people, they at least have good customer service and Ohlins is something you guys will always have to deal with regardless. Also, the later model V11's that came with Ohlins came with much different valving and spring rates. The Cafe Sport and *** Corsa models are quite livable once you get the proper spring rates. The Scura isn't, and needs to be revalved.

[dlaing]

snip

Thanks for the response.

I would not dare go beyond the dimensions of the stock Guzzi Ohlins shock.

I just would also not like to lose the travel that the Sachs and your Wilbers have.

In fact I want to spring it so that the shaft spends more time at a straighter angle, ie. very firm but with a lot of sag.(kinda an oxmoron if were talkin boob jobs )

I guess I won't write off hyperpro, as I like the progressive spring, and think it helps keep the shaft centered. If HyperPro can do it to the Ohlins Guzzi Stock Shock dimensions, that may be what I want.

Of course I am sure a HyperPro Spring could also fit the Wilbers, but if you recall, we suspect the HyperPro Spring is VERY firm....and their service is not as friendly as the Wilbers people.

I am glad that Wilbers can set it to any length and travel....From Chris Beauchemin's experience, I suspected the body length might have prohibited it to a long length with short travel.

[andy york]

Just curious where the info on the difference between the Scura and other models comes from. How do we know that they are not the same . Inquiring minds want to know

 

andy

 

. The Cafe Sport and *** Corsa models are quite livable once you get the proper spring rates. The Scura isn't, and needs to be revalved.

[Greg Field]

I think, different part numbers. The forks, for sure are different, since the Scura uses a solid axle and the later Cafe Sport uses the hollow axle.

[dlaing]

Just curious where the info on the difference between the Scura and other models comes from. How do we know that they are not the same . Inquiring minds want to know

 

andy

 

. The Cafe Sport and *** Corsa models are quite livable once you get the proper spring rates. The Scura isn't, and needs to be revalved.

FWIW, I recall when Scura owners were discussing fork damping adjuster clicks the numbers did not match.

I think both are FG313s....only different.

I have a Cafe Sport Ohlins number FG313 2003.02.13 (probably an expiration date )

[Guest drknow]

Just curious where the info on the difference between the Scura and other models comes from. How do we know that they are not the same . Inquiring minds want to know

 

Well, I've spent quite a few miles on both, and you don't have to have the schematics to feel the difference. The later inspections verifying the differences just confirmed what anyone who's ridden the Scura and subsequent Ohlins equipped V11's already knew.

 

dk