water in petrol / tank

[belfastguzzi]

sorry I haven't checked manuals, diagrams or anything: I'm just hoping for some quick comment here

 

What happens with water in the fuel system? Does it just sit in the bottom of the tank? Does it collect in the fuel filter? Does it tend to go through the system (possibly damaging injectors) and get 'steamed' off?

 

A little bit of rain is always going to get in to an opened tank filler. Last time I opened it after heavy rain, a large amount of water glugged in, though. It had collected and not drained (for some reason to be yet determined). When bike was leaned over on side stand the water collected over on the left was as high as it could be and emptied in to the tank as soon as the seal was lifted – too quickly for me to stop it.

 

Suppose best thing is to let tank get low and then drain it all out. Should the filter be changed as a precaution?

[badmotogoozer]

Water goes to the bottom. If it runs, it'll likely just blow it through the engine, no harm as long as it doesn't sit anywhere along the way.

 

If it spurts and coughs, pour some Methyl Hydrate in the tank (gas line antifreze). Then it'll mix with the gas and burn nicely.

 

Rj

[DVH]

If you lift the tank you will see two brass outlets under the tank roughly below the filler neck, one of them is the drain for any trapped water from around the filler. remove brass fitting and clear out with a small drill. If your lucky you might find two hoses connected to the brass outlets.

I have found its a build up lime scale from water that blocks the small hole

Dave

[belfastguzzi]

If you lift the tank you will see two brass outlets under the tank roughly below the filler neck, one of them is the drain for any trapped water from around the filler. remove brass fitting and clear out with a small drill. If your lucky you might find two hoses connected to the brass outlets.

I have found its a build up lime scale from water that blocks the small hole

Dave

Lime scale Ta. It is a very small hole for the drain, isn't it.

I only have one hose (on the drain). I imagine that all UK bikes are like that.

 

In an old thread I found reference to fine black / grey suspension collecting in the filter. Opinion was that the fuel lines were doing that: dissolving into the petrol.

[Ryland3210]

Water goes to the bottom. If it runs, it'll likely just blow it through the engine, no harm as long as it doesn't sit anywhere along the way.

 

If it spurts and coughs, pour some Methyl Hydrate in the tank (gas line antifreze). Then it'll mix with the gas and burn nicely.

 

Rj

 

Would ordinary alcohol do as well?

[belfastguzzi]

Water goes to the bottom. If it runs, it'll likely just blow it through the engine, no harm as long as it doesn't sit anywhere along the way.

 

If it spurts and coughs, pour some Methyl Hydrate in the tank (gas line antifreze). Then it'll mix with the gas and burn nicely.

Sounds like JRT's problem, before the doctor told him to drink more whisky.

 

Would ordinary alcohol do as well?

Oh yeah – ordinary, aged, oh anything at all, says JRT

[badmotogoozer]

Would ordinary alcohol do as well?

 

Now chemistry isn't my thing, but I believe the "hydrate" part is what makes it attract the water molecules and make it burnable. The gas line antifreeze "unfreezes" lines by removing the frozen water blockage.

 

Water in the gas isn't a big problem. There's always condensation in storage. Rain. It gets in there. Normal. We used to "de-coke" our old junker engines by dumping water down the carb at full throttle and watching the black smoke pour out the pipe.

 

Why waste perfectly good alcohol when any gas station has Methyl Hydrate for a $1 a bottle?

 

Rj

[belfastguzzi]

We used to "de-coke" our old junker engines by dumping water down the carb at full throttle and watching the black smoke pour out the pipe.

Were they low compression, or what?? You wouldn't want to clean out a diesel like that.

 

Re fuel injection: 'they' say that water damages injectors: don't know if 'they' mean by going through 'em or by corrosion

[Guest ratchethack]

Argh, this subject was painfully brought to mind a month ago, when I stopped at an unfamiliar (cheap) gas station, filled up the car and had rough running the next day and ever since.

 

It's taken me a month, a bottle of gas dryer, and two tanks of gas to get rid of my latest water-in-gas affliction.

 

Many decades ago I put a few hundred thou miles on several different cars in Michigan, where winters are "non-trivial" relative to much of the US. In winter, condensation water in both vehicle tanks and in tank farms and underground storage tanks was a common thing. Gasoline dryer additive was the usual solution for small amounts of water, which can create BIG engine performance problems - not to mention the dreaded gas-line freeze at the low point in fuel lines, where water tends to separate out and collect, since water and gas are immiscible.

 

I looked up some stuff on the Web just to see what's out there, 'cause I hadn't thought much about this since before there was a Web.

 

Here's a little tidbit that might be helpful, especially this time of year in the Northern Hemisphere:

 

For removing small amounts of water in a vehicle gas tank, use pure anhydrous isopropyl alcohol (IPA), which normally can't be purchased at a drug store. However, Wally World sells a 16-ounce container of 99-percent-pure anhydrous IPA -- that's nearly as close to pure as is available anywhere -- for $3.74. The ideal ratio for IPA used as a gas dryer is 12 oz per 10 US gallons. DO NOT use rubbing alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is sold in water solution, so if you add this, you're adding more water, creating a bigger problem than you had to begin with. Yep, I've seen this happen.

 

The products sold in auto parts stores are 100-percent anhydrous (no water in solution) IPA or methyl alcohol, with nothing added except, in some products, a corrosion inhibitor. Pure methyl alcohol is extremely corrosive without added corrosion inhibitors. Yep, corrosion via untreated alcohol will root fuel injectors in fairly short order. Both IPA and methyl alcohol are soluble in water and, while they work differently, both prevent water in the system from freezing.

 

IPA additives work by holding some water in solution (combining chemically via weak hydrogen bonds), then burning it off in the combustion chamber. This is by far and away the preferred, low-risk method of dealing with the problem. Methyl-alcohol additives work by drawing the water together at the bottom of the tank. Fuel-tank sloshing then will permit small amounts to be drawn into the fuel system, where it will burn off.

 

With near-pure Wally World or pure chemical-house IPA, you won't be getting the corrosion inhibitor included in many gas-line antifreeze additives. Therefore, you gain very little by using these, and probably lose by not having the corrosion inhibitor. My choice: a good IPA additive with corrosion inhibitor, avaliable at any auto parts outlet.

[belfastguzzi]

For interest's sake, must keep a look-out. Not aware of EVER seeing a 'petrol drying' product on garage shelves over here.

[Guest ratchethack]

For interest's sake, must keep a look-out. Not aware of EVER seeing a 'petrol drying' product on garage shelves over here.

HEET® Products

 

HEET®

 

The #1 selling brand for over 50 years in helping prevent gas-line freeze up by removing water from fuel systems. HEET also aids in quick cold weather starts by preventing frozen fuel lines. With its rust and corrosion inhibitors, HEET helps keep your fuel system clear of power-robbing gum, condensation and corrosion. HEET can be used in fuel injected and carbureted engines, with unleaded and leaded fuels and is safe for catalytic convertors, oxygen sensors and fuel injectors. HA55120 24/12 fl.oz. - 24/355 mL

 

Iso-HEET®

 

ISO_HEET is an isopropyl alcohol formula that absorbs water and aids in quick cold weather starts by preventing frozen fuel lines. This makes it ideal for use in snowmobiles, boats motorcycles, all small engines and imported cars. Containing rust and corrosion inhibitors, ISO-HEET helps prevent stuttering or stalling of engines, power-robbing gum, condensation and corrosion. ISO-HEET can be used with unleaded and leaded fuels and is safe for catalytic convertors, oxygen sensors and fuel injectors. HA55360 24/12 fl. oz. - 24/255 mL

[Guest ratchethack]

Should the filter be changed as a precaution?

Sorry I missed this question first pass, BFG. IMHO, unless y'er due for a fuel filter change anyway, there's no need at all to change it due to the presence of minute amounts of water in the petrol. Using an anhydrous IPA "petrol dryer" additive, all the water that might accumulate in the filter will chemically combine with the IPA, and Bob's y'er Uncle.

 

Hmm, all this blather about IPA. . . . Now suddenly, I'm thirsty. . . .

[belfastguzzi]

Sorry I missed this question first pass, BFG. IMHO, unless y'er due for a fuel filter change anyway,

I'll order one now. Should arrive....oh...Christmas '07?

[badmotogoozer]

'07? A little optimistic don't you think?

 

Rj

[mike wilson]

Propanol is the stuff. Old name propyl alcohol. There are two forms, propan-1-ol and propan-2-ol. Number 2 is the iso kind and that's the one that combines with water to make it mix with petrol. Your local chemist will probably sell you a bottle if you explain what you want it for.

 

You put loads of water through the engine every time you run it - it's in the air. I find that I have to drop the float bowls of my V65 at regular intervals to drain water out. It's not coming down the cables, so I can only assume that it is condensate caused by the drop in temperature as the fuel evaporates into the airstream.