Fork spring recommendations

[Tom M]

It's time to order new fork springs for my '02 LeMans (Marz forks). I searched here and read a lot of the suspension threads, still not sure if I should go with progressive wound or straight rate springs. There's only one progressive spring set that is available from Wilburs, .7kg/mm - 1.1kg/mm. Since I'm about 225lbs (nekkid) I would think that these might be a little too soft in initial travel, but I'm not a real aggressive rider and I don't do track days so maybe they'd be OK .

 

I'd love to hear from anyone out there who's close to my weight that's upgraded their marzocchi fork springs. What springs did you go with and how pleased are you with the results? Comments from non-heavyweights are OK too

 

TIA,

Tom

[Guest ratchethack]

Tom, as a non-heavyweight who's installed the Wilburs fork springs at 190 lbs with full Vanson riding gear (per several previous threads on the topic), I would strongly advise NOT to go with these springs at your weight. IMHO y'er about 40 lbs too much for these springs.

 

Sorry, I can't make a recommendation on an alternative spring, but I think you'll find one or two straight rate springs that'll match up and work just fine.

 

I know there are guys who will say that progressive springs are Satan's own spawn, but of course this runs counter to the trends of Sportbike OEM issue and also the race-track -- if that means anything at all.

 

Far more important than progressive vs. straight-rate, IMHO, is the overall match of rate to load.

 

Good luck.

[BrianG]

I'm about the same heftiness as Tom. I had Traxxion Dynamics revalve the Marz forks, and they placed 1.10kg springs in my 2000 Sport. They are a little firm on gentle cruises but really nice in the twisties.

 

If I were to use progressive springs I'd try to get the 1.10 value to fall just high of the middle of the range. That'd make 0.85 - 1.25 what you wanted. IMHO

 

Then carefully set your loaded sag to 30% front and back.

 

YMMV

[Tom M]

I'm about the same heftiness as Tom. I had Traxxion Dynamics revalve the Marz forks, and they placed 1.10kg springs in my 2000 Sport. They are a little firm on gentle cruises but really nice in the twisties.

 

If I were to use progressive springs I'd try to get the 1.10 value to fall just high of the middle of the range. That'd make 0.85 - 1.25 what you wanted. IMHO

 

Then carefully set your loaded sag to 30% front and back.

 

YMMV

 

 

Traxxion Dynamics recommended their Omni 1.05kg spring kit for my weight. This option seems better than the Wilburs progressives for me based on what you and ratchethack have experienced. Thanks for the help guys!

[Greg Field]

I'm about exactly your weight. When I still had Marzocchis, I fitted 1.0 kg/mm springs from RaceTech. That worked well but was just slightly on the light side for my riding style. Very comfortable ride, though.

[dlaing]

Traxxion Dynamics recommended their Omni 1.05kg spring kit for my weight. This option seems better than the Wilburs progressives for me based on what you and ratchethack have experienced. Thanks for the help guys!

I think there 1.05 kit is a 1.00 and a 1.10.

For pretty obvious reasons, I would put the 1.10 on the Rebound side, assuming you have the Marzocchi with the compression and rebound on seperate forks.

It might not make a peceptible difference, but it will balance the active load better.

[dlaing]

Tom, as a non-heavyweight who's installed the Wilburs fork springs at 190 lbs with full Vanson riding gear (per several previous threads on the topic), I would strongly advise NOT to go with these springs at your weight. IMHO y'er about 40 lbs too much for these springs.

That being said, the Wilbers would be a huge improvement over stock, and for someone that does not ride all that hard, they may be firm enough. It will give you better control under hard braking and will absorb larger bumps without bottoming.

The Wilbers will give a plusher ride than the Traxxions, until you bottom out, and that is when you will miss the Traxxions. Bottoming out generally occurs more frequently than people realize.

The Traxxion 1.05 kit will handle braking and large, harsh bumps much better than the the Wilbers and twice as much better as the OEM Marz springs.

[Guest ratchethack]

That being said, the Wilbers would be a huge improvement over stock, and for someone that does not ride all that hard, they may be firm enough. It will give you better control under hard braking and will absorb larger bumps without bottoming.

The Wilbers will give a plusher ride than the Traxxions, until you bottom out, and that is when you will miss the Traxxions. Bottoming out generally occurs more frequently than people realize.

The Traxxion 1.05 kit will handle braking and large, harsh bumps much better than the the Wilbers and twice as much better as the OEM Marz springs.

Here's my reasoning. At 225 lbs., Tom would be just about exactly the same mismatch to the Wilbers .7-1.1 kg/mm progressive springs as I was to the stock .6 kg/mm straight rate springs that I replaced with the Wilbers. I had been about 40 lbs too much for the stock springs.

 

While the Wilbers would be taking Tom in the right direction, by my experience, getting the sags right for Tom with the Wilbers would be just as impossible as it was for me with the stockers. The acid test is to be able to get both laden and unladen sags in the correct ranges (30-35% of total available travel laden, half of that unladen), which I accomplished with the Wilbers. This was impossible for me with the stock springs. IMHO the Wilbers would be a good match for most riders up to around 190 lbs (without gear and depending on personal preferences), but not much heavier than 200 lb or so -- depending on desired results, of course.

 

This is just my take, but I suggest that if y'er gonna upgrade springs, you don't want to go over-rate to the point of a harsh ride by any means, but you sure don't want to up-rate for an improvement, yet still be under-rated, either. By my experience, under-rated springs 40 lbs out o' whack can result in a HARSH ride no matter how much more preload spacer you have to put on 'em to get the laden sag right -- and then your unladen sag is off the charts on the low end, and y'er not gonna be a happy rider this way either. The only alternative to this with under-rated springs is to back off preload spacers until y'er riding on the air spring at the bottom 20% or so of fork travel, and I'm here to tell you, my friends, that either way - relative to getting it right, this is a HARSH ride.

 

When you get a proper match of rate to load, it's a beautiful thing and a joy forever.

 

I suspect that for many riders - especially bigger guys - getting the spring rates correctly matched to the load is the first (and possibly ONLY) time they will ever realize something close to how well their Guzzi was actually engineered to handle, and how comfortable it actually is on the road. For many, it ain't no small difference, either.

 

IMHO, YM ain't gonna V.

[dlaing]

IMNSHO the "right" sag is subjective to taste.

If I were going to tour the US and Canada, I would be happiest with the Wilbers springs, a touring windscreen, more upright and rearward handle bars, bike only sag of 5-10mm, and rider and bike sag of ~40mm, and a well tuned air spring....

But that is only my opinion, and it is certainly your right to be beaten up on the super slabs riding on firm springs, while I have the right to be cursing with every pot hole and aggressive braking.

The choice is safety and control versus comfort.

Of course it is only hypothetical that the softest spring that does not bottom out will offer more comfort, but I stand by that hypothesis.

I have no doubt that more riders will be happier following Ratchet's definition of the right sag, I am only pointing out that the right sag is subjective to the rider.

[RacerX]

Ok guys... I have to disagree here (and I'm making myself late to my rally for this), as I hate to see misstated facts published. Progressive springs are GREAT for 99% of the street riding V11 owners found here, and with the high range of 1.1kg of the Wilbers, getting to the ideal spot (sag, etc.) is as simple as following the directions provided with the springs (oil weight and capacity, etc.) for each riders weight. I think some of those here are being a bit excessive (no names mentioned ) as to making things "perfect."

 

As a near life-long racer, linear springs are great for track use, and those who explore the limits of their bikes daily (most of whom opinions I'm reading here don't even get close), and if you don't mind a fairly firm ride (I run 1.05kg linears in my killer Jackal which are great when pushed hard), just be aware they provide a fairly harsh ride at most lower (g-load) speeds.

 

My input for the record.

 

Now get to the Rally you two.

[Guest ratchethack]

. . . . I think some of those here are being a bit excessive (no names mentioned ) as to making things "perfect."

 

As a near life-long racer, linear springs are great for track use, and those who explore the limits of their bikes daily (most of whom opinions I'm reading here don't even get close), and if you don't mind a fairly firm ride (I run 1.05kg linears in my killer Jackal which are great when pushed hard), just be aware they provide a fairly harsh ride at most lower (g-load) speeds.

 

My input for the record.

 

Now get to the Rally you two.

OK, Todd. I don't believe "perfect" suspension exists (unless spring rates properly matched to load within a reasonable range by weight = "perfect"), and I sure as hell ain't no racer, but I can't disagree more with the "one size fits all" progressive spring theory. And I have yet to see the world's most formidable racing skill trump the laws of physics on the track OR on the road. But hey -- I've got an open mind, I got Isaac Newton ridin' pillion on my brand-spankin' new Wilbers shock, and I'm bringin' my calculator. I hope y'er bringin' y'er laptop.

[BrianG]

Well, I'm going to put in a set of progressive fork springs this winter.............

just to see if I really DO have my head up my ass!!

 

Now I need to find a source of progressive spring for the Penske shock, too....................... Todd?????

[dlaing]

Well, I'm going to put in a set of progressive fork springs this winter.............

just to see if I really DO have my head up my ass!!

 

Now I need to find a source of progressive spring for the Penske shock, too....................... Todd?????

I have wondered if Wilbers can provide a progressive shock spring.

If Todd can offer it, you will get better tech support

WP, intrax, technoflex, wilbers and hyperpro all have common business associations, and the technoflex, wilbers and hyperpro look pretty darn similar.

But as far as I know, the HyperPro is the only one of the bunch with rising rate springs for the rear mono shock.

However, I suspect Works Performance Shocks might be able to add dual rate springs to the Penske.

Still, a HyperPro rising rate spring may do the trick!

[Greg Field]

The black marzocchi forks have progressive-rate springs from the factory. I replaced mine with straight springs of a heavier weight. This improved suspension action markedly. I am a fat bastard, though.

[Skeeve]

The black marzocchi forks have progressive-rate springs from the factory. I replaced mine with straight springs of a heavier weight. This improved suspension action markedly. I am a fat bastard, though.

 

Ya know, it would sure be nice if those who've gone down the path of heavier fork springs would measure the dang things first so V11LM could build up a database of the various offerings with OAL, # of coils, wire gauge, etc. so that those of us who're too dang cheap to drop the money on new springs can do the calcs to figure out how much to cut off the stockers...