Torque Chart

[Alex-Corsa]

With the external oil filter you have about 1 liter more oil. I removed the oil-cooler completely.

 

This means , that having an extra liter of oil and external filter (that gets cooled) you won't need the oil cooler no more.?

But was it also a middle sump that was made to fit with external oil filter , or this doesn't fit our newer Guzzis with the bigger surfaced(LxW) sumps

[Greg Field]

It's not a common problem, but as Darius has found out, it does happen.

 

You guys think I make this shit up?

 

Darius is your proof that I do not. This was a filter installed by a professional; mechanic, not by an owner.

 

Do as you like, though; I'll get some more cranks and be ready should you need one.

[luhbo]

I for instance do not think you make this shit up.

 

Anyway, you know, things can be made public in various forms and styles, and some postings of some people sometimes and under certain circumstances could be looked upon as a being a bit more frightening as they should be, I think.

 

My point of view is that a system as crucial for the main functions of any engine could not exist if it was not proofen to be 120% reliable under all circumstances. The OEMs like GM, Ford, Moto Guzzi, DC and also the minor ones would never rely on parts of small suppliers like UFI, Mann&Hummel, Champion etc. if they weren't absolutely sure of being on the safe side.

 

Just think how you would look at it if you were to make a FMEA for this. It will ruin your engine, it will kill people driving behind your car, it's hidden under the hood and you have no real chance to check whether it's mounted properly. 10 points each, I'd say.

 

All those filters are based on the same system, since 30, 40, 50 years, don't know. It is fool proof! It must be!

 

So, why does it happen anyway?

 

- If it was a weak flange design then there should be more failed ones actually but only 4 or 5, the more as this engine (and parts) was used already in the 1100 sports and Daytonas and others.

 

- My personal opinion based on personal observation is that the small hole in the oil pan could be the reason for the failing filters. If you don't remove the pan you can touch the filter only with the finger tips. This gives a totaly different feeling of what "handtight = 12 Nm" should mean! I did it last time and was more but unsecure of how tight the filter really was.

 

- Realising this problem you could think it's a good idea to use a tool to tighten the filter. Now again this may be the first time for one or others that they mount a filter this way. Fearing to overtighten it may lead to too less torque, being less scrupulous easyly can damage the seal.

 

So my opinion is, if you loose an oil filter or its seal on a V11 it probably was just too difficult for the operator to mount it properly under these difficult circumstances given at V11's.

 

Hubert

[Guest Gary Cheek]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEFFFTTT!! Am I missing something here?? Wouldn't punching a hole result in instant oil pressure failure, same as if the filter backed off its seat?!

Nope, you haven't missed a thing.

Hey Ratcheback , Remember the self accellerating Audis from a few years ago? The fix turned out to be driver education as to the function and location of the brake pedal and throttle. There are still those who swear their size 23 boot had nothing to do with them driving their Audi through the store front.

 

"Professional mechanics" Bugger cars every day, motorcycles too.

 

Luhbo, I'll bet the tool is a huge factor.

 

This is the home-made tool I use to remove UFI filters, I have another cut for the Mobil One filters I usually replace the UFI with.

[Guest ratchethack]

Nope, you haven't missed a thing.

Uh, I reckon I got my leg pulled. . . .

Hey Ratcheback , Remember the self accellerating Audis from a few years ago? The fix turned out to be driver education as to the function and location of the brake pedal and throttle. There are still those who swear their size 23 boot had nothing to do with them driving their Audi through the store front.

OK Gary, I'm not missing y'er point here, either, though I'm not prepared to make anywhere near the same kind of assumption WRT the unscrewing filters.

 

IMHO, unlike massive financially-motivated examples of class action consumer fraud, the filter retainer clamp's a fraction of an ounce o' prevention that's more'n worth a new Guzzi motor's coupla hundred pounds o' cure. . . .

 

How well insured do you want y'er Guzzi to be against catastrophic failure? Like fire insurance on y'er domicile, it's always a personal choice, and I don't think it's possible to justify faulting anyone for being as well insured as they want to be -- but that's just me.

 

Not only do I remember the "spontaneously accelerating Audi 5000's", I owned one, a 5000S. And I'm not pullin' y'er leg, either. The whole "Audi spontaneous acceleration" fiasco was one big "Trial Lawyers Association Retirement Benefit Plan" that never had a single shred of merit behind it, like the mythical - and entirely delusional - folding rear suspension on Corvairs - which served to launch not only Ralph Nader's career, but ushered in an entire New Age of Consumer Fraud backed by an entire new industry of judicial activism and ballooning insurance rates. How could I forget? Without Ralphie's example to follow, there never would have been as much as a mention of the non-existent "problem" with the Audi, not to mention the dozen "classic" cases in the same mold that followed, and still plague us today. . . . .

 

OK, now that y'got me started, remember the mythical "frame problem" with the early Guzzi "short-frame" Sports that spontaneously, and without any warning whatsoever, caused riders to be thrown off on straight sections of road? I've been fighting that one f'er years. There's a Guy who seems goosey about buying one right now, asking questions on this and the WG Forum, 'cause he's understandably concerned over all the persistent unsupported rumors . . . . . Wottayagonna do? Sometimes the bigger the lie, the more like a wildfire with a high wind behind it it is, and the harder it is to kill -- despite the complete and utter absence of any valid supporting evidence. . . . . .

This is the home-made tool I use to remove UFI filters, I have another cut for the Mobil One filters I usually replace the UFI with.

BTW - to pick up y'er sidebar, I got a billet socket for UFI filters from the PO of my Guzzi that appears to be identical to the one you made (nice job). I've also got a polycarbonate one that fits my personal choice for replacement filters, Champion Labs' ST3614, from Kragen Auto parts for I think $3. According to all the filter tests I've read (a pile), and direct experience, neither my Guzzi nor its oil can tell any difference between the two filters, and their multi-pass rating efficiencies, capacities, particle size filtration, etc. are equivalent. The price of one UFI pays for (I think) four ST3614's and the polycarb socket.

[Alex-Corsa]

And I have forgot , I use the appropriate LOCTITE for antivibration parts that have to stay in their position temporarily.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Good point about the Corvairs. I also owned a couple of them. A 110 HP Monza and a 140HP Corsa. I can't speak for the early swing axle versions but the full independents I owned (1965s) were mighty fine cars. By the time Mr. Nader snuffed them they were a world class auto.We could have used them during the embargo. Little known that Porsche designed much of that engine. The heads were cast by Porsche and the piston/ cylinder assemblies were Mahle products. I had the pleasure of rebuilding both engines before I could drive the cars. Back then every car I bought was a fixer-upper.

 

I recall back in the late 60s a debate between Ed Cole of Chevrolet and Ralphy the lawyer, Nader. It got down to Ed Cole confronting Nader that Nader always knew the Volkswagen Beetle was in fact far more unsafe at any speed than the 'Vair. Ed Cole asked Nader why he did not go after the Beetle. " General Motors did not make the Volkswagen " was Nader's response. Removing any doubt his target was the company not the car.

 

Oh Fine biz on the filters. From what I can tell, Champion makes filters for a few other brands. Mobile 1 is mmost likely a Champion filter. If you ever need a wrench like the billet job drop me a line.

[badmotogoozer]

Don't feel bad about getting your leg pulled, Ratch. I was in mid reply when I felt the pull on my toes...

 

Had Corvairs myself. A 61 Greenbrier van and a 66 Corsa. The 65/66's were excellent machines, and if you look at the frame on the (I likely have the year wrong) IIRC 69 Vette, there was a provision for mid engine a la corvair until Nader killed it all. My 66 though tired and worn was one of the better handling machines I've driven.

 

Even the Greenie wasn't bad - if the problem was serious, with the higher COG in the van, I would certainly have experienced it in at least two surprise corners I still remember being amazed I lived through. The only time it was scary was at full bore on I5 heading to Laguna with the semi's raging by. Each one would threaten to send me ditch bound

 

I used to have a photo of a 65/66 corvair going around a corner on a track with its inside rear wheel completely off the ground. They got a bad rap, but made Nader's career.

 

I do have Nader to thank for my profession, however, (Biomedical Engineering) as his safety dogging resulted in much safer equipment in hospitals and the creation of Biomeds.

 

I'd love to have another Greenie or Corsa. Finding solid ones is a real challenge now.

 

cheers and thanks fer the memories!

 

Rj

[Tom M]

I'd love to have another Greenie or Corsa. Finding solid ones is a real challenge now.

 

Rj

 

My boss restored a 65 Corsa turbo ragtop and drives it almost every day. He's in all the Corvair clubs, on the mail lists, goes to the shows, etc. I'm sure I could get you some info from him on finding a good one if you're really interested. They are still a hell of a lot cheaper than the muscle cars of that era...

[badmotogoozer]

Thanks Tom!

 

I'd have taken you up on that a few months ago but am currently in negotiations on a 52 chev - another car I've wanted for a while.

 

There will be another 'vair in my future though.

 

cheers,

 

Rj

[Guest Mattress]

They are still a hell of a lot cheaper than the muscle cars of that era...

 

Isn't that sad? Well I guess not for those that have their dream muscle car. In the 80's when I was a young lad, my second car was a 1968 Dodge Charger. It was the base model (383 2 barrel auto) but still fun. Dig this, it was a michigan car its whole life right (bondo bucket). One day it got mangled when I was rear ended at a stop light by a girl driving her boyfriends mint '64 Malibu convertible. I dug the O from chevrolet out of the bumper.

 

I loved the Australian charger. smaller and a little different, but sexy all the same. Boy I miss living there....and VB.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Thanks Tom!

 

I'd have taken you up on that a few months ago but am currently in negotiations on a 52 chev - another car I've wanted for a while.

 

There will be another 'vair in my future though.

 

cheers,

 

Rj

 

 

The second car I bought was a 1940 Chevrolet Special DeLuxe Coupe bought it the winter of 1967. It had 4 NOS fenders, all the chrome NOS and NOS running boards and a pile of other NOS parts! It also had a bad rod knock. I also bought a 1952 Chev just for the engine and transplanted it into the '40. Paid $300 for the '40 and $25 for the '52. Got a years use out of the '52 engine and found a real sweet deal, a complete 1953 vette engine. The 235 CI split exhaust , 3 sidedraft carbed , Blue Flame six. My first real hot rod was born! Geez I miss that car. Bought it at age 17 sold it at 24 or so. I must have put 8 different engines in that car. Even a 302 GMC 6 with a 12 port Wayne crossflow head.It had a 327 with a 400 Turbohydromatic and 3:90 12 bolt posi when I sold it. The 1953 vette was far and away my favorite. It still had much of the same soul as the original engine but the performance was better.

 

I sold it to buy a motorcycle (Guzzi content)

[Ryland3210]

 

 

Not only do I remember the "spontaneously accelerating Audi 5000's", I owned one, a 5000S. And I'm not pullin' y'er leg, either. The whole "Audi spontaneous acceleration" fiasco was one big "Trial Lawyers Association Retirement Benefit Plan" that never had a single shred of merit behind it, like the mythical - and entirely delusional - folding rear suspension on Corvairs - which served to launch not only Ralph Nader's career, but ushered in an entire New Age of Consumer Fraud backed by an entire new industry of judicial activism and ballooning insurance rates. How could I forget? Without Ralphie's example to follow, there never would have been as much as a mention of the non-existent "problem" with the Audi, not to mention the dozen "classic" cases in the same mold that followed, and still plague us today. . . . . <_ src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_kotze.gif" alt=":vomit:">

 

 

Right on! Now you got me going! It was ironic that years later, after Nader killed GM's first "compact" car, he criticized Detroit for not coming out with compact cars.

 

Litigation and the threat and reality of unlimited, astronomical damage awards far beyond anything reasonable are a growing cancer to our society. Not only has it exponentially increased the cost of insurance, but worse yet, in my opinion, is that our freedoms are eroded as well. As an example, schools and government buildings that used to be made available for respectable uses outside of school hours cannot permit that unless their insurance company is consulted and agrees to cover the event. Usually, they decline because they would obviously like to cover as little as possible and still get the maximum premium. When they agree, all too often they require an additional payment. The fear of unreasonable and outrageously unfounded liability permeates our society today at tremendous cost.

 

Just as an example, if I want to go skiing, I receive a disclaimer of any liability with my lift ticket. The problem is that it is meaningless because if I break my leg, I will have no problem finding an attorney to take my case on contingency, no matter how reckless and stupid I was. What I want is a form that I can sign that actually gives me the right to take all the risk with no recourse to the ski venue no matter what happens, with all the insurance built into the lift ticket discounted.

 

Will I get that freedom to choose? No, because the legal profession and judicial system are ethically challenged. Small wonder insurance is so costly.

 

In some countries, you can also sue for whatever amount you want, but you must prove you have the money available to pay the opponent's legal fees PLUS 10% of whatever you sue for in case you lose. You can imagine how much more reasonable claims are, and that frivolous claims are non-existent.