Roper Plates and Oil Level

[BrianG]

Based on Ratchet's commentary, I'm relocating my "full" mark to 1 cm above the Roper plate.

[pete roper]

Based on Ratchet's commentary, I'm relocating my "full" mark to 1 cm above the Roper plate.

 

No, don't. While the primary purpose is to prevent rearward surge and therefore exposure of the oil pick-up a secondary benefit will be a reduction in windage. Whether this acyually makes for any performance improvement I'm entirely ambivalent about as it wasn't mmy aim when building and designing the plates.

 

If you do fill the sump above the plate though you will not only negate any benefit, percieved or otherwise, but you'll also risk over-pressurising the crankcase with the risk of excessive oil expulsion and blown seals.

 

My belief is that if the oil level is just below the plate at rest, with the bike vertical, there will be enough crankcase volume to allow a proper functioning of the PCV system, a reduction in windage problems and no risk of over-taxing seals.

 

It's important to remember that the swept volume of a cylinder is the same underneath the piston as above it. While with a 90* twin with a shared crankpin you won't get anywhere near the full 1064cc discrepancy between the maximum crankcase volume and the minimum it IS an issue so replacing compressible *air* in the case with incompressible oil is going to produce problems iff too much oil is added.

 

Pete

[Guest ratchethack]

Based on Ratchet's commentary, I'm relocating my "full" mark to 1 cm above the Roper plate.

Hey Brian -- based on my commentary?! Like Pete (as largely derived from his deeply experienced, rational, and sound professional fundamentals as presented), I've cited at length many reasons to keep oil below the plate, and I posted my first successful tests of the plate with level at 10 mm below the plate.

 

So wot's YOUR basis for interpretation of my commentary, whereby you come up with 10 mm above, praytell??

[BrianG]

Just thought I'd try on the Ratchet-irritant hat for a sec.... is all....

[Ryland3210]

John, I can't conceive of any self-respecting Guzzista needing a dipstick guide -- at any level of effort and investment of time!!

 

Would you tell your Significant Other you need a dipstick guide?!

 

However, there's good news for you as a prospective Roper plate installer. The plate has a hole in it that acts exactly as what you note above -- a guide for the dipstick!

 

For those who don't have a Roper plate installed, you can simply screw the dipstick home and add oil to imaginary marks above the ones on the dipstick -- or even put your own marks on it wherever you want.

 

That's good news about the Roper Plate built-in guide.

 

One of the practical problems with my black plastic cheapo OEM dipstick, is that it is difficult to read the level, and not because the oil is black! It's clean. By the time I screw it in and out, oil wicks up and blurs the line. Now you might say, why don't I use the method of measureing without screwing it it, but I've covered the disadvantages of that before. It's cumbersome, balancing the bike vertically with one hand, while screwing the dipstick all the way in and out, then looking at it, trying to see the line.

 

I'm really not getting obsessive about this, although it may seem so. When taking measurements for broadcast, I want to be certain to convey reliable data. Having done that, and established how much oil to put in when changing it, and having an accurate level to go by, I'm in a position to make quick checks from time to time. I never worried to this extent about oil levels before, and didn't bother to add oil to a vehicle until it dropped to the add oil mark, but with all the damage done to Guzzi's I've read about in the forum, and cautions about keep it up to the full mark, it has my attention. I have an affinity for things mechanical, and enjoy taking especial care of the vital fluids that have so much to do with longevity.

 

I've already sketched an adapter for the dipstick with a guide tube feature. The existing level marks on the dipstick would correspond to the proper levels when screwed in. It would also provide quick, accurate readings for routine checks by inserting it into the adapter without screwing it in (of course while visually taking into account the corresponding level difference).

 

Maybe this is one of those projects that will never see any further use beyond my own, but I think I'll do it anyway, if only for my own convenience and peace of mind.

[Guest ratchethack]

That's good news about the Roper Plate built-in guide.

Kinda thought you'd like it. But I b'lieve there's still a fly in your ointment, my friend:

I've already sketched an adapter for the dipstick with a guide tube feature. The existing level marks on the dipstick would correspond to the proper levels when screwed in. It would also provide quick, accurate readings for routine checks by inserting it into the adapter without screwing it in (of course while visually taking into account the corresponding level difference).

 

Maybe this is one of those projects that will never see any further use beyond my own, but I think I'll do it anyway, if only for my own convenience and peace of mind.

Now this is a nice little project, John, regardless of wot anyone (myself included) thinks. And by all means, more power to ya. But have you considered that since the dipstick is off-center where it crosses the oil level (anywhere in its possible operating range) that you need to hold the bike level anyway -- even with a dipstick guide -- to get an accurate read?

 

This would seem to negate one of the motivations/justifications you've presented for fabricating a guide, n'est-ce pas?

 

Just checking.

 

BTW -- I have a stock all-aluminum dipstick (hard enough to read also in stock form, but modified to eliminate the problem). But I sympathize with your frustration with the black plastic dipstick. My Pal's '04 LM has this and he can't read it at all. He's been known to hold it under a light, in sunlight, in shade, gives up, and hands it to me without a clue, as if I could read it any better. I can't. We came up with a procedure that seems accurate enough: wipe the dipstick laterally on a newspaper. The telltale oil blot is a pretty good read on the level.

[Tom M]

My Pal's '04 LM has this and he can't read it at all. He's been known to hold it under a light, in sunlight, in shade, gives up, and hands it to me without a clue, as if I could read it any better. I can't. We came up with a procedure that seems accurate enough: wipe the dipstick laterally on a newspaper. The telltale oil blot is a pretty good read on the level.

 

White or silver spray paint on the black plastic dipstick helps a lot.

[Guest ratchethack]

White or silver spray paint on the black plastic dipstick helps a lot.

Thanks, Tom. I'll pass this on. D'you need "plastic paint" or will anything do, or d'you know?

 

TIA

[Guest Megarad]

Ive been using these in all of my bikes for quite some time.You simply file the high -low marks yourself with a three cornered file.The one for the guzzi is the same length as the standard black plastic one.Much easier to see the level.

 

Len

 

[Tom M]

Thanks, Tom. I'll pass this on. D'you need "plastic paint" or will anything do, or d'you know?

 

TIA

 

I used regular spray paint but it's starting to flake a bit so I'd suggest that Krylon fusion(?) plastic paint.

[Ryland3210]

Ive been using these in all of my bikes for quite some time.You simply file the high -low marks yourself with a three cornered file.The one for the guzzi is the same length as the standard black plastic one.Much easier to see the level.

 

Len

 

 

Hey,Len, that looks great! Where can I get one? I've seen these on other bikes, but yours must have the right thread, etc.

 

 

 

Kinda thought you'd like it. But I b'lieve there's still a fly in your ointment, my friend:

 

Now this is a nice little project, John, regardless of wot anyone (myself included) thinks. And by all means, more power to ya. But have you considered that since the dipstick is off-center where it crosses the oil level (anywhere in its possible operating range) that you need to hold the bike level anyway -- even with a dipstick guide -- to get an accurate read?

 

This would seem to negate one of the motivations/justifications you've presented for fabricating a guide, n'est-ce pas?

 

Just checking.

 

Yes, I've considered that, and have experimented with trying to measure with the bike on the sidestand. This might be fine if the dipstick were on the other side, but it's problematic the way it is, with the dipstick already at a 45 degree angle, plus the tilt of the bike itself.

 

The advantage of the guide tube is that I could easily unscrew it while on the sidestand wipe off the oil. Then I only have to hold the bike vertical for a second or two while I put the dipstick in and out to get the reading.

[Guest Megarad]

I get them of ebay.The link below.This guy has the best price going.If you can get a group together and order several at once the postage works out much cheaper per unit.This realy is a trick item.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/OLTHERMOMETER-MOTO-...oQQcmdZViewItem

 

Cheers

Len

[Gio]

 

Yes, 4 U.S. quarts will fit under the sloppage sheet, (or below the gasket for those who do not have one) provided you include changing the filter and use part of the 4 quarts to fill the new filter.

 

The problem I have with using the un-threaded dipstick is that it is all too easy to misjudge the 45 degree angle and get a high or low reading. It's annoying that there is no guide tube for the dipstick. Then it would be easy to establish a reliable fill mark without having to screw it in. Maybe I'll make it a project. What do you think? Is it worthwhile?

 

Here are some measurements I made during the installation of my Roper plate :

 

2000 V11S. Standard black dipstick (L= 185mm, H= 157mm from top of threads)

Based on Rylands work, I made a new mark (H2) the at 140mm (157 - 0.69")

 

Pre-Roper install level was ~5mm below H2 and ~12mm above H

Drained vol (incl filter and oil cooler lines - quite a bit in there..) was measured at 3.5l (plus some loss)

I conclude from this that with spec 3.5l, stock H mark is at least 12mm low.

 

Fitted plate. H2 mark is ~5/8'' or 15mm below plate (confirmed by scratch marks caused by contact betweem edge of hole in plate and dipstick - thinner dipstick required.

 

Filled with 3.58l (measured) which gave a level at approx stock H mark. Added a further 0.2l for a total of 3.78l - this gives a level somewhere between H and H2 - hard to measure as contact between plate and dipstick gives false reading. Best estimate is ~2mm above H (or ~13mm below plate) as checked with a thin wooden dowel marked at same levels.

 

I think 4l would fit below the plate but am not sure how far below the plate would be optimal (professor Roper?) - for now I'm happy with 3.78l and am using stock H as the new low and Rylands H2 as new high.

 

(Question - if oil level was too high and being blown - where would you first expect to see evidence, if any?)

 

This may be wishfull thinking or biased imagination, but bike feels (and sounds?) much better ..!

 

Thanks again Pete (and others) for this.

 

Gio

[v11cafe]

Kinda thought you'd like it. But I b'lieve there's still a fly in your ointment, my friend:

 

Now this is a nice little project, John, regardless of wot anyone (myself included) thinks. And by all means, more power to ya. But have you considered that since the dipstick is off-center where it crosses the oil level (anywhere in its possible operating range) that you need to hold the bike level anyway -- even with a dipstick guide -- to get an accurate read?

 

This would seem to negate one of the motivations/justifications you've presented for fabricating a guide, n'est-ce pas?

 

Just checking.

 

BTW -- I have a stock all-aluminum dipstick (hard enough to read also in stock form, but modified to eliminate the problem). But I sympathize with your frustration with the black plastic dipstick. My Pal's '04 LM has this and he can't read it at all. He's been known to hold it under a light, in sunlight, in shade, gives up, and hands it to me without a clue, as if I could read it any better. I can't. We came up with a procedure that seems accurate enough: wipe the dipstick laterally on a newspaper. The telltale oil blot is a pretty good read on the level.

 

There is a solution to read the standard black dipstick more easily.

With a sharp knife or something like that, carve notches (with care....) between the min & max mark on the dipstick, from all sides(4). Wipe it clean with some cloth, or water so plastic dust goes away,

and you"ll see that the notches keep oil and make it easier to read the oil level.

[BrianG]

Small notches is the way to go.... I cut them with a small triangular file. Very easy and very quick.....