2000 V11 Sport vs. '75 850 T-3

[ShiftyAl]

Hey guys,

 

I've been riding (read: working on) my 1975 MG 850 t-3 for a while now and although I love the bike, I do wish I wasn't constantly chasing charging issues.....gas leaks....oil leaks...electrical gremlins and the normal stuff. I am going to look today at a used 2000 V11 Sport just to test the water and I'm hoping to get some advice from you all. It has 16,000 miles on it and seems to be in good shape. It's up for sale for $3,600.

 

The questions are:

 

Are there any common problems or significant issues to look out for on this particular model?

 

Any obvious drawbacks to owning one period?

 

What are the going value of these and do any of you care to make a guess at continued value loss? (I'm guessing that a well maintained bike like this would be nearing its bottom dollar pricing and should maintain its value quite well?!?)

 

Should the mileage indicate possible upcoming maintenance concerns?

 

Will I miss my old shaking and CLASSIC T-3?

 

Thanks ahead of time!

 

 

Alan

[Guest ratchethack]

Are there any common problems or significant issues to look out for on this particular model?

 

Any obvious drawbacks to owning one period?

Al, there were 2 separate recalls that cover serial number ranges for the 2000 Sports. The serial numbers are listed somewhere on this Forum (sorry, I don't know where). One recall is for a sliding muff and some other collar in the trans, the other is for con rod big-end studs. You don't want to guess about either of these. You're well advised to verify that this work has been completed by an authorized Guzzi dealer and acknowledged by MGNA.

 

The ergo's aren't for everyone. Newbies typically run into "surprises" here, not knowing (or I reckon caring in some cases) how or even if they can adapt. I bought mine primarily for the stable handling, the gorgeous torque spread of the motor, the fabulous match of gear ratios to the torque spread, AND for the ergo's, which are ideal for my purposes.

 

You should know up front that there are persistent false rumors about the "short frame" Sports. This includes the 2000 Sport with Marzocchi 40 mm USD fork and 25 degree rake. Many "sporting" bikes have a more agressive rake, including the MGS0-1 at 23.5 degrees, and the new Ducati Sport at 24 degrees. Later Sport and LeMans variants have a relatively lazy 26 degree rake. The rumors have it that there's a "frame problem" with the 25 degree Sports. The BIG LIE is that the 25 degree "steeper geometry" causes speed wobbles, head-shakes, tank-slappers, heat rash, jaundice, jungle fever, prickly heat, gout and piles. The most egregious versions of these unfounded tales of woe maintain that the "short frame" Sports will throw riders off spontaneously and without warning on straight sections of road!!! These patently false rumors have been wreaking havoc among those who're not knowledgeable enough, and among those who're for whatever other reason unable to confidently debunk them. Those who own them (myself included) have largely rendered themselves immune to the BIG LIE with knowledge and the application of a moderate dose of reason and common sense.

 

Without getting into too much of an explanation, the notoriously weak stock issue .6 kg/mm fork springs need to be replaced (unless you weigh somewhere around 140 lbs!) with springs properly matched to your weight and riding style. If you do this, and especially if you continue after solving what is for most riders, this glaring suspension shortcoming from the factory by properly setting up the suspension, the 2000 Sport is, IMHO among the most rock-solid and stable, safe, and superbly handling bikes of its class (being at least 100 lbs. overweight puts it largely in its own "class" BTW ) that you will ever encounter. If, however, you insist on riding any bike so badly undersprung as at least some of them (including mine) arrived here in the US, you'll eventually be dealing with the same kind of concerns and potential for the same kinds of problems that you would rightfully expect with any badly undersprung bike - regardless of marque or model.

What are the going value of these and do any of you care to make a guess at continued value loss? (I'm guessing that a well maintained bike like this would be nearing its bottom dollar pricing and should maintain its value quite well?!?)

I would tend to agree with you about nearing its low on the market. Others here who're more familiar with the going prices lately can offer up-to-date intelligence. IMHO, if the bike is in superb condition and has been well maintained, this seems like a very good price. Since they aren't made anymore, its resale value is likely to hold very well. To my way of thinking, resale would be the least of my considerations, but that's just me. Frankly, IMHO its STILL one of the best possible buys on the used bike market.

Should the mileage indicate possible upcoming maintenance concerns?

My Sport was still loosening up and the rings were still getting finally seated-in at this mileage. IMHO it's a good point to take an inventory of what maintenance is known to have been done, assume what isn't known to have been done hasn't been done, and bring it all up to date. Such things as fork oil changes, air filter oiling, brake and clutch bleeding, gas filter changes, and a smattering of other things are typically not done at all by PO's and would be likely overdue at this point -- but you'd know this from y'er T-3. You'd also know that its best years -- and many of 'em there will be -- are all ahead of it.

Will I miss my old shaking and CLASSIC T-3?

Hmmmmmmmmm. I think I would, but this would have nothing to do with enjoying my Sport for a long list of reasons not applicable to a T-3!

 

Hope this helps.

[ShiftyAl]

Al, there were 2 separate recalls that cover serial number ranges for the 2000 Sports. The serial numbers are listed somewhere on this Forum (sorry, I don't know where). One recall is for a sliding muff and some other collar in the trans, the other is for con rod big-end studs. You don't want to guess about either of these. You're well advised to verify that this work has been completed by an authorized Guzzi dealer and acknoweldged by MGNA.

 

Should I call MGNA about this? Can they easily update me on its recall status?

 

The ergo's aren't for everyone. Newbies typically run into "surprises" here, not knowing (or I reckon caring in some cases) how or even if they can adapt. I bought mine primarily for the stable handling, the gorgeous torque spread of the motor, the fabulous match of gear ratios to the torque spread, AND for the ergo's, which are ideal for my purposes.

 

I'm guessing that it should fit me quite well since I'm 6'2" about 185. I DO appreciate the torque curve of my T-3.....nice and smooth and always there.

 

You should know up front that there are persistent false rumors about the "short frame" Sports. This includes the 2000 Sport with Marzocchi 40 mm USD fork and 25 degree rake. Many "sporting" bikes have a more agressive rake, including the MGS0-1 at 23.5 degrees, and the new Ducati Sport at 24 degrees. Later Sport and LeMans variants have a relatively lazy 26 degree rake. The rumors have it that there's a "frame problem" with the 25 degree Sports. The BIG LIE is that the 25 degree "steeper geometry" causes speed wobbles, head-shakes, tank-slappers, heat rash, jaundice, jungle fever, prickly heat, gout and piles. The most egregious versions of these unfounded tales of woe maintain that the "short frame" Sports will throw riders off spontaneously and without warning on straight sections of road!!! <_ these patently false rumors have been wreaking havoc among those who not knowledgeable enough and for whatever other reason unable to confidently debunk them. own them included largely rendered themselves immune the big lie with knowledge application of a moderate dose common sense. src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_sleep.png" alt="-_-">

 

Without getting into too much of an explanation, the notoriously weak stock issue .6 kg/mm fork springs need to be replaced (unless you weigh somewhere around 140 lbs!) with springs properly matched to your weight and riding style. If you do this, and especially if you continue after solving what is for most riders, this glaring suspension shortcoming from the factory by properly setting up the suspension, the 2000 Sport is, IMHO among the most rock-solid and stable, safe, and superbly handling bikes of its class (being at least 100 lbs. overweight puts it largely in its own "class" BTW ) that you will ever encounter. If, however, you insist on riding any bike so badly undersprung as at least some of them (including mine) arrived here in the US, you'll eventually be dealing with the same kind of concerns and potential for the same kinds of problems that you would rightfully expect with any badly unersprung bike - regardless of marque or model.

 

What do the springs normally run and what's the best place to purchase them?

 

I would tend to agree with you about nearing its low on the market. Others here who're more familiar with the going prices lately can offer up-to-date intelligence. IMHO, if the bike is in superb condition and has been well maintained, this seems like a very good price. Since they aren't made anymore, its resale value is likely to hold very well. To my way of thinking, resale would be the least of my considerations, but that's just me. Frankly, IMHO its STILL one of the best possible buys on the used bike market.

 

I'm only concerned about value because I tend to own at least 3-4 bikes at a time and sell them after I spot something new on the radar and as a college student I like to at least be able to sell them for what I paid....sometimes MUCH better.

[luhbo]

I switched over from a well used LM3 in white, to a green 2000 v11, and I missed the LM3, really. It was my second bike, after a 750 S bought in 1981. I still have them both, btw, so nothing unforgiveable happened.

 

After 2 weeks I had completely forgot the Tontis. Go for the short V11, it's uncomparable! And maybe buy a Quat-D ex-box to complete it. Then this combo will do for the next 15 years or so.

 

Hubert

[ShiftyAl]

Why are my quotes not working in the reply?

[jrt]

Dunno why your quotes weren't working.

 

But there is no comparison between the torque of the V11 and the T3. I've got a G5 and an '01 sport and they aren't even from the same planet, much less factory. The V11 is waaay more powerful, refined, smoother, pulls like two freight trains (maybe three), and pretty much out-performs the G5 in every way. That said, I still love my G5 and wouldnt trade it for the world.

 

BTW- I doubt you'll find a better price, but have a close look at the bike in case something is funky with it. You could part it out for more than $3600, I'd bet.

[belfastguzzi]

Why are my quotes not working in the reply?

That's an odd one. Did you edit the quote that would read something like: quote name='ShiftyAl' date='Oct 23 2006, 10:29 PM' post='104485' ? Did you just click on the 'Reply' button.

 

The quotes on/off toggle doesn't seem to be working either.

 

Dunno why your quotes weren't working.

Just checking toggle again. JRT's quote should not have appeared (unless I mis-understand the toggle function).

[ShiftyAl]

hey guys....I BOUGHT IT!

 

I rode it all day today and love it. I haven't even cleaned it up yet, but I still love the way it looks. What a HUGE difference between this and my T3. I will say that it has just enough in common with my T3 for me to appreciate it. I'll post some pics later to show how similar they are in appearance.

 

Thanks for your help. I believe you'll be hearing more from me.

 

Alan

[Tom M]

hey guys....I BOUGHT IT!

 

I rode it all day today and love it. I haven't even cleaned it up yet, but I still love the way it looks. What a HUGE difference between this and my T3. I will say that it has just enough in common with my T3 for me to appreciate it. I'll post some pics later to show how similar they are in appearance.

 

Thanks for your help. I believe you'll be hearing more from me.

 

Alan

 

 

Congrats on the new bike Al and welcome to the V11 world!

[Guest ratchethack]

hey guys....I BOUGHT IT!

. . .

Congrat's Al! Now take y'er solemn oath not to believe the BIG LIE about the "haunted frame" of the '00 Sports (see my post #2 above), and pledge to do y'er utmost to shoot this grotesque fallacy down in flames early and often, whenever and wherever it may darken y'er path.

 

May you enjoy yours as I have mine -- with great enthusiasm and confidence!

 

Now get y'er suspension dialed-in, or I'm gonna hafta come lookin' fer ya. . . . .

 

If I may make a suggestion based on my experience, I achieved by far the greatest return on my efforts and costs by starting at the front end, solving the worst of the mis-matches of spring rate to load, leaving the rear end in an extended "temporary" condition with only correct laden sag setting dialed-in (unladen sag not being possible to get close to correct with the stock spring), before I got fully conditioned to the whopping new improved overall handling achieved by re-springing the front end and getting fork sags, preload, air gap, and damping correctly set. It was only after 30K miles on the shock that I completed the chassis tuning with a custom-ordered shock and a correct rate shock spring, which allowed correct rear sags for the first time - both laden and unladen.

 

IMHO you can do lots worse than gaining some level of mastery of the info at the following links:

 

http://www.strappe.com/suspension.html

 

http://www.racetech.com/articles/SuspensionAndSprings.htm

[jrt]

hey guys....I BOUGHT IT!

 

I rode it all day today and love it. I haven't even cleaned it up yet, but I still love the way it looks. What a HUGE difference between this and my T3. I will say that it has just enough in common with my T3 for me to appreciate it. I'll post some pics later to show how similar they are in appearance.

 

Thanks for your help. I believe you'll be hearing more from me.

 

Alan

 

 

Excellent choice of color, too. They're a hoot, aren't they!

[ShiftyAl]

Pics of the old one AND the new one! (before a good detailing)

 

A friend and I took them both out on one of the popular twisty roads here in Austin on Friday. We traded off a few times to compare them and I was surprised by how well the T3 held its own. For now I will keep them both and simply enjoy them for different reasons. Maybe the T3 will finally get the proper restoration it deserves!?

[antonio carroccio]

I love this pic's

[Baldini]

.... took them both out on one of the popular twisty roads here in Austin on Friday. We traded off a few times to compare them and I was surprised by how well the T3 held its own. For now I will keep them both and simply enjoy them for different reasons. Maybe the T3 will finally get the proper restoration it deserves!?

 

Hey Al! Good man! I have a T3 looks like it's set up similar to yours but with LM heads/carbs & SP barells/pistons & Zocchi forks: On a twisty road there wouldn't be much in it between it my Scura - & not sure which'd come out on top. The Scura is faster but softer & more unwieldy & you can get your weight much further over the front on the Tonti. You do right not to sell it! This year I've ridden the Tonti more than the Scura ....mainly cos Scura runs out of tyres so fast....but I wouldn't sell either of them.

 

KB