Technical knowledge ???

[Crooz]

OK.. here's the deal. After I brought my newly purchased 2002 home this weekend I only had 2 days to feel it out before the work schedule and below freezing temps hit the area. Have been out in the garage each night familurizing myself with the bike, cleaning, ect...

Because it's my 1st Guzzi, and due to my limited experience with them, its sort of hard for me to tell if it's tuned & running at it's best. For instance, tonight I cranked it and it just didn't feel as smooth as it did, or as maybe it should. After I turn it off I notice a fairly strong smell of gas coming only from the right exhaust. So I coated up and took it down the road for a 3 mile run. It seemed to run OK, but I'm not 100% certain its performing to its max. Then upon returning it to the garage and turning it off, I sniffed the exhaust tips again. Right one still smelled of gas, left one did not.

Am I being parinoid? If not, then whats up?

[OldButNotDead]

OK..... I sniffed the exhaust tips again....

.....Am I being parinoid....If not, then whats up?

 

Umh...too much gas sniffing?

[pete roper]

Remember, it's a fuel injected bike. It doesn't have a choke. The mixture is controlled by the ECU which judges if the engine is cold via the engine temperature sensor which is plugged into the back of the right hand head at about 10 o'clock as you look down on it from above. You'll probably find it's a clip in fitting in a sort of plasic *thingy* screwed into the head. When you start the bike up it sends a signal to the ECU saying 'Hey! I'm cold! Gimme some more fuel for the amount of air I'm using.' The ECU obliges by telling the injectors to deliver more fuel and lo and behold, a rich starting mixture.

 

The thing is that the ETS has itself to get hot before it changes the signal to the ECU saying 'Lean me out now please'. Since the head is a substantial chunk of alloy it takes a while to heat up and anyway, Guzzis are so good at dumping heat that even in coldish weather they may run a bit rich due to the ETS still telling the ECU the motor is cold.

 

Moto International, among others probably, will sell you a brass holder for the ETS rather than the spoogy piece of plastic crap the factory uses. I need one for my Griso which has the same POS sensor holder I could make one but why bother when you can buy one. How much are they Greg?

 

The main thing is 3 miles is nowhere near enough for the head to reach true operating temperature, it actually takes about 25 miles for the engine to get up to some sort of thermal equilibrium, so my guess is that the reason it was still smelling rich at the end of your short ride was because it was! The ECU was still delivering more fuel than was strictly neccessary.

 

BTW. The 'Choke' lever on the handle bar is not a choke at all. All it is is a fast idle that opens the throttle a bit. As previously stated all the enrichening is done by small rodents that live in the silver box with fins on

 

Pete

[Alex-Corsa]

All I can "smell" from what you are saying and form so far away is that perhaps your injector throtle bodies-are not synchronised , perhaps would be a nice idea to check it out.

Snchronising the TB\s correctly (not only the vacum ) but as well as the TPS voltage will lead to a perfect running bike. Better TB synchron is with rocker clearences set.

I hope you have not messed this big white head screw under your left TB while you were cleaning the bike , did you?

How about your fuel consumption, and what do your spark plugs say? I bet the one is darker than the other

 

As about being a bit rich in start up I agree with Pete 100% longer rides with stabilized higher engine temps will have your motor running at the fuel mixture that is more

to the "normal standard"

[Guest ratchethack]

I notice a fairly strong smell of gas coming only from the right exhaust.....

.... I sniffed the exhaust tips again

.....Am I being parinoid? If not, then whats up?

Wot Pete said.

 

But there's more:

 

He looked so immaculately frightful

As he bummed a cigarette

Then he went off sniffing drainpipes

And reciting the alphabet

Now you would not think to look at him

But he was famous long ago

For playing the electric violin

On Desolation Row

 

--Robert Allen Zimmerman, 1965

[Alex-Corsa]

The thing is that the ETS has itself to get hot before it changes the signal to the ECU saying 'Lean me out now please'. Since the head is a substantial chunk of alloy it takes a while to heat up and anyway, Guzzis are so good at dumping heat that even in coldish weather they may run a bit rich due to the ETS still telling the ECU the motor is cold.

 

Pete

My comment on that is that it comes from the mapping,I believe ,assuming the sensor works properly, it is reading, the correct temps,BUT apparently Guzzi uses lot of engine compestation percentages in lower temps -that sometimes are not so low for the engine to work with a correct leaner mixture-

and as a result that "rich" behaviour.

What do you think Pete?

[Crooz]

Remember, it's a fuel injected bike. It doesn't have a choke. The mixture is controlled by the ECU which judges if the engine is cold via the engine temperature sensor which is plugged into the back of the right hand head at about 10 o'clock as you look down on it from above. You'll probably find it's a clip in fitting in a sort of plasic *thingy* screwed into the head. When you start the bike up it sends a signal to the ECU saying 'Hey! I'm cold! Gimme some more fuel for the amount of air I'm using.' The ECU obliges by telling the injectors to deliver more fuel and lo and behold, a rich starting mixture.

 

The thing is that the ETS has itself to get hot before it changes the signal to the ECU saying 'Lean me out now please'. Since the head is a substantial chunk of alloy it takes a while to heat up and anyway, Guzzis are so good at dumping heat that even in coldish weather they may run a bit rich due to the ETS still telling the ECU the motor is cold.

 

Moto International, among others probably, will sell you a brass holder for the ETS rather than the spoogy piece of plastic crap the factory uses. I need one for my Griso which has the same POS sensor holder I could make one but why bother when you can buy one. How much are they Greg?

 

The main thing is 3 miles is nowhere near enough for the head to reach true operating temperature, it actually takes about 25 miles for the engine to get up to some sort of thermal equilibrium, so my guess is that the reason it was still smelling rich at the end of your short ride was because it was! The ECU was still delivering more fuel than was strictly neccessary.

 

BTW. The 'Choke' lever on the handle bar is not a choke at all. All it is is a fast idle that opens the throttle a bit. As previously stated all the enrichening is done by small rodents that live in the silver box with fins on

 

Pete

 

Oh the pride that I now feel to be a member of such a knowledgable forum!!!

OK, I understand... but why only smell rich from the right side ?

[pasotibbs]

Oh the pride that I now feel to be a member of such a knowledgable forum!!!

OK, I understand... but why only smell rich from the right side ?

side stand ?

[Alex-Corsa]

Oh the pride that I now feel to be a member of such a knowledgable forum!!!

OK, I understand... but why only smell rich from the right side ?

 

Have you checked my 1st answer?

[Crooz]

All I can "smell" from what you are saying and form so far away is that perhaps your injector throtle bodies-are not synchronised , perhaps would be a nice idea to check it out.

Snchronising the TB\s correctly (not only the vacum ) but as well as the TPS voltage will lead to a perfect running bike. Better TB synchron is with rocker clearences set.

I hope you have not messed this big white head screw under your left TB while you were cleaning the bike , did you? How about your fuel consumption, and what do your spark plugs say? I bet the one is darker than the other. As about being a bit rich in start up I agree with Pete 100% longer rides with stabilized higher engine temps will have your motor running at the fuel mixture that is more

to the "normal standard"

 

No I haven't adjusted the big white headed screw... but it was tempting.

Thanks for the information. My problem is that there are not any knowledgable Guzzi mechanics locally. Nearest dealer is 55 miles.

From what I've learned this week...and since it's cold here now.... it's will be a good practice for me to warm-up the Lemans for several minutes prior to exiting the garage.

 

Oh... what is TPS voltage?

[Greg Field]

As others have said, get the tuning and synch right before worrying about the sensor holder.

 

I'll check on those sensor holders when I get to work. I'll warn you, though: they can be a bitch to change. After the original plastic holder crumbles when you try to turn it out, you then have to remov the brass base of the holder, and it sits in a very narrow well in the head casting. I had to grind down the o.d. of a deep-well 16mm (I think it was a 16) to get it out. It appeared to have been loc-tited in place and did not come out easily.

 

Before installing the brass sensor holder, check to see if the sensor's tip will bottom out inside the holder. Usually, it will not. Use grease or something that will leave "witness marks." If not, you can file a bit off the top of the sensor holder or just use a good heat-conducting compound to fll the space. I used anti-sieze. This will efficiently transfer heat from the sensor-holder base to the tip of the sensor. Then, wrap the o.d. of the sensor holder with duct tape to provide some insulation for the holder.

 

Thus done, my Billy Bob's heads show full operating temp (as read through the ECU by the AXONE) in just a few minutes. Average gas mileage on my bike went from 33 to 35 from this one mod. Still, poor mileage, in my opinion, but I can't seem to improve it further, even by driving very gently.

 

 

A photo of the original cracked holder and the new brass holder.

[Dan M]

OK.. here's the deal. After I brought my newly purchased 2002 home this weekend I only had 2 days to feel it out before the work schedule and below freezing temps hit the area. Have been out in the garage each night familurizing myself with the bike, cleaning, ect...

Because it's my 1st Guzzi, and due to my limited experience with them, its sort of hard for me to tell if it's tuned & running at it's best. For instance, tonight I cranked it and it just didn't feel as smooth as it did, or as maybe it should. After I turn it off I notice a fairly strong smell of gas coming only from the right exhaust. So I coated up and took it down the road for a 3 mile run. It seemed to run OK, but I'm not 100% certain its performing to its max. Then upon returning it to the garage and turning it off, I sniffed the exhaust tips again. Right one still smelled of gas, left one did not.

Am I being parinoid? If not, then whats up?

 

 

At one point early last summer I noticed my bike was running extremely rich. The exhaust odor at idle was overwhelming. I brought it in to the shop and hooked it up to the exhaust gas analyzer. Sure enough COs were off the scale. I disconnected the vacuum hoses in the manifolds to check balance and some raw fuel dribbled out of the right side. I thought my injector may be leaking but it was not. I set the mixture and balanced the TBs and it ran great from then on. Never found the cause of the raw fuel but it has not recurred. I did notice some choppy acceleration in very hot weather about 1500 miles later and reset everything again. It seems they are rather touchy to temperature and settings and need to be fiddled with occasionally. Overall though, in temps below about 95, once things were dialed in the bike runs great.

 

 

Edit: Greg, do you know the resistance values for corresponding temperatures for that temp sensor? I haven't found a chart anywhere.

[slug]

Am I being parinoid?

"Paranoid" is such a terrible word. We prefer to use the term "Guzzichondria."

OK, I understand... but why only smell rich from the right side ?

It's really hard to say because the left and right exhausts are joined at the crossover (which in theory mixes the two sides together) and are then re-split for the mufflers. However, I've never seen what's inside a stock crossover so I don't know how well the exhaust is mixed.

 

My guess is:

 

1. The fuel mixture is fine on both cylinders and as the others have said, the engine is running rich because it's not all the way up to operating temperature and the ECU hasn't leaned the mixture out.

 

And...

 

2. The right muffler flows better than the left muffler. Less flow = less smell. (I'm assuming that you still have the stock mufflers) The stainless steel wool inside the left muffler may be packed tighter than the right, or a small woodland creature crawled up inside the left muffler to make a nest for the winter.

 

As the others have said, your best bet is to make sure your valves are properly adjusted and the throttle bodies are properly balanced. After that, relax and go for a ride while you still can

[Guest davidb]

All the crossover has is a piece of wire mesh screen inside, kind of a mixing box. I opened mine then welded it back. I think the stock crossover has more cubic inches than the aftermarket ones. the aftermarket ones would maybe give you alittle more back pressure.

[Gini Fata]

All the crossover has is a piece of wire mesh screen inside, kind of a mixing box. I opened mine then welded it back. I think the stock crossover has more cubic inches than the aftermarket ones. the aftermarket ones would maybe give you alittle more back pressure.

How about no dealer around for 400miles? Cold in Carolina? Take a ride up to the Sault and you will know cold. I agree with Pete, run the bike for a while. Go through the gears and let her rip.The oil needs to get hot and the rubber on wheels need to get hot as well.My bike, even in the summer takes a few miles to get just right. Then you will know if it idles right or not. All the fixes are simple but the main thing is to familiarize your self with the bike. I ride a FJR as well and a 650sv.They are all different. The Fjr seems like I am riding my car and the 650 is a little bullit, but the Guzzi makes me feel like I am on a real motorcycle.