Where to order a Power Commander?

[dlaing]

Now ,OK the tune boy does programm some maps for the 15M but how does one flashes them to the ECU

I know that direct link thing that does diagnosis and mapping and flashing, but how one can flash a tune boy map to the ECU?

Computer----->Cable----->ECU

It is that simple.

 

The only negatives for TuneBoy, that I can think of, are:

Diagnostic tool is not ready yet.

Getting a Key requires patience, and the computer hooked to the bike needs active internet while hooked to the bike.(luckily I had a 50ft ethernet cable, although I could have used dialup, too. And now that I have a laptop, I could use wireless) Once the key is activated, no internet is required.

The Network of Dyno tuners that will touch TuneBoy are generally more expensive than the network used by PCIIIs.

Some PCIII maps are not easily transferable to the ECU through Tuneboy.

 

The positives are:

Someday, a diagnostic may be available.

The level of Tuning with TuneBoy is superior to the level of tuning that you can do with a PCIII, and as far as I know, is equal to Direct Link, except for the ability to control the base trim.

Timing can be fully mapped.

Accelleration fueling can be fully mapped.

Individual cylinder fueling can be fully mapped.

Fueling can be fully mapped.

Air temperature trim can be adjusted.

Engine temperature trim can be adjusted.

The price is competitive with PCIII and cheaper than Direct Link or MY15M.

The Direct Link is superior to the TuneBoy in every way, except for the abillity to import some PCIII maps.

But you could look at the PCIII maps and guesstimate

The MY15M is superior to all of the options, except for the ability to import some PCIII maps, but it is more expensive.

[Alex-Corsa]

Computer----->Cable----->ECU

It is that simple.

 

Cool , that sounds simple.

For the record , where do you get the appropriate cable to connect the PC to the ECU concerniong the tune boy and 2. What's the price of the Tune boy to do all these.?

[dlaing]

Vtwin, I congratulate you on y'er willingness to consider a choice as an individual, undaunted by others with another point of view. lol

Shameful Vtwin! your individuality has been compromised as you have fallen in line with the PC sheeple. lol

Just kidding. Your choice is fine. But sorry, it is the popular choice, and shows now great exhibition of individualistic will power.

 

 

Just my opinion, o' course, which is worth exactly wot you pay f'er it blush: , but if you get your PC III from Todd E., you're getting far more than a piece of firmware with connectors and factory instructions that you might be lucky enough to get with y'er purchase on E-Bay. As he has done with me and many others I'm aware of, Todd will go out of his way to make sure y'er pleased with y'er purchase. I'm just pointing out that getting a PC III from Todd means having a fairly responsive, direct connection to the foremost resource on the planet with the PC III for Guzzi's, and that this is of great value to some, meself included.

 

Todd is The man.

But why did he have to go out of his way to help you?

Enquiring minds need to know

 

I have an older "dual purpose" thumper that gets lots of use. It's a SOHC 4-valver with dual carburetors -- one with a pilot jet for low-end mixing, and the other with a main jet for mid-to-high end operation. I've managed to tune this motor so that it runs just about as well as my Guzzi -- that is, far better and far stronger than new. It runs so well that I can't imagine how it could run any better . I've tuned it meself with a tunable pipe, minor head cleanup and decking, intake box mod, raising the jet needles, and a couple o' oversized jets. I've tuned it by doing plug chops and the use of my trusty "seat-o-the-pants dyno". P

 

How is it possible, I ask you, that I ever managed to tune this bike and a dozen previous moto's without the benefit of dynamometers and programming devices?! Just as I have with the Guzzi, I must've been doing it all WRONG! For that matter, how has it EVER been possible for ANYONE to've EVER well-tuned millions upon millions of carbureted motors of every description without dynamometers and programming devices? huh2:

 

Enquiring minds just gotta know!! grin:

"well-tuned" is subjective.

In days of Carbs, expectations were lower, and carbs use venturi to self regulate fuel. The instant self regulation is gone with fuel injection. Heck, you can leave your Fuel Injected Guzzi bone stock, and have it "well-tuned" with a volt meter. But if you want it well-tuned to the specifications of the manual, you need something to control the fueling at idle, and a CO meter.

If you want to better optimize the mixture at various points on the map, and have it MORE "well-tuned" you need a mapping tool. For most people that is enough. My bike left the PCIII custom dyno pinging more than a zero map, but otherwise it ran better.

If you want it to be MORE MORE "well-tuned" you need a mapping tool that controls parameters other than the simple fueling. At that point I wanted control of timing, temperature, and altitude, so I went with TuneBoy.

 

 

 

Are you planning on chasing land speed records? Drag racing? BOTT circuit racing? Or maybe y'er expecting y'er choice of ECU control to allow you to drop the local hooligans on their UJM 600-4's between stoplights? If so, I reckon y'er gonna find y'erself up against challenges that're past the ability of a dyno and a custom map to be y'er "silver bullet" in any case. . . . .

 

BAA, TJM, & YMMV.

The dyno and custom map are a silver bullet for optimizing the bike, especially needed after doing other things necessary for chasing land speed records, drag racing, etc.

Heck, my bike can already blow away the 600-fours zero to thirty MPH.

[dlaing]

Cool , that sounds simple.

For the record , where do you get the appropriate cable to connect the PC to the ECU concerniong the tune boy and 2. What's the price of the Tune boy to do all these.?

http://www.tuneboy.com.au/

or for Europe

http://www.tuneboy.co.uk/

The cable and software are included.

You will have to write them as they still don't list the Guzzi.

The price I paid was lower than MSRP, because there was no diagnostic. I don't know if Wayne will still discount it as he MAY be near completing the diagnostic...or not

Earlier I said it was about the same price as a PCIII, but that may have changed as the posted prices on the website went up alot.

The Techno Research Direct Link may be a better choice.

http://www.technoresearch.com/Products/Dir...Direct-Link.htm

[Alex-Corsa]

Thanks ,just need to have in mind in case I get a 15M type bike and need to tune it ,or for a friend with a V11.

Any ideas if there is anythign available for the new Brevas and Griso type of ECUs ?

 

 

 

 

P.S. edit. Well in addiion to that is that as seen here at the editing fatures of tune edit is one can set target AFR's for the bike ,in closed loop that will index the bikes ECU for the set AFR so automatically the fuel map will change.Now why shoul hen mess with the ingnition fueling and don't just adjust the target AFRs for the ECU.? Is it something I am missing? I have no idea how exactly a closed loop bike can be tuned with the tune boy.

In my open loop ECu proceedure is different since I have to set the steady parameters such as ignition timing and sometimes ign.advance on the bike along with some temp. compestation parameters and check AFR -make corrections..ect.ect.

[dlaing]

Thanks ,just need to have in mind in case I get a 15M type bike and need to tune it ,or for a friend with a V11.

Any ideas if there is anythign available for the new Brevas and Griso type of ECUs ?

P.S. edit. Well in addiion to that is that as seen here at the editing fatures of tune edit is one can set target AFR's for the bike ,in closed loop that will index the bikes ECU for the set AFR so automatically the fuel map will change.Now why shoul hen mess with the ingnition fueling and don't just adjust the target AFRs for the ECU.? Is it something I am missing? I have no idea how exactly a closed loop bike can be tuned with the tune boy.

In my open loop ECu proceedure is different since I have to set the steady parameters such as ignition timing and sometimes ign.advance on the bike along with some temp. compestation parameters and check AFR -make corrections..ect.ect.

Good question.

I am not sure of the answer, but I think the short answer is that O2 sensors are not accurate nor fast enough, and setting a target AFR adjusts the map to a limited degree.

I believe Cliff's MY15 takes this technology to a higher level, with WBO2 and other variables.

The TuneBoy for Guzzi may not be designed to adjust closed loop for O2...Sorry, I don't recall

I have no idea how I would input an O2 sensor into the Marelli 15M, but it may be possible

Tuneboy adjusts the closed loop features of the ECU for engine temperature, air temperature, and atomospheric pressure. With my WBO2 I should be able to log time, RPM, TPS, and either engine or air temperature.

[Alex-Corsa]

Good question.

I am not sure of the answer, but I think the short answer is that O2 sensors are not accurate nor fast enough, and setting a target AFR adjusts the map to a limited degree.

I believe Cliff's MY15 takes this technology to a higher level, with WBO2 and other variables.

The TuneBoy for Guzzi may not be designed to adjust closed loop for O2...Sorry, I don't recall

I have no idea how I would input an O2 sensor into the Marelli 15M, but it may be possible

Tuneboy adjusts the closed loop features of the ECU for engine temperature, air temperature, and atomospheric pressure. With my WBO2 I should be able to log time, RPM, TPS, and either engine or air temperature.

 

Since the tune boy adjust the mapping , the rest is left for the ECu to do, the point is if this ECU is compatible with another AFR sensor (WBO2 real time type) but is all about voltage(sensors output) right?

In such case then, AFR controler systems like the LC-1 from innovate have also a seperrate analog outputs for connecting it to the ECU, perhaps that's the way that you can have more accirate O2 data for the ECU targeting AFR to work , or? (I suppose)this means to substitute the bike's O2 sencor with the one of a modern AFR real time controler. SO there you have it, or?

I think this is also how it is used (an AFR real time controler) also with the ''MyECU'' system 'helping' when on closed loop, isn't it so ?

[robbiekb]

I really don't understand the whole PC bashing nonesense. I've worked in Computer Software and Hardware most of my after University life and can honestly say that the PC3 is about as idiot proof and easy to install as it gets. Anyone who says otherwise either has an axe to grind or really doesn't know what theyre talking about OR has some vested interest in selling some other solution.

 

I have a lot of friends in the "chipping" business, a holdover from my days architecting the anti piracy solution for the original XBox. For cars it makes sense, but the real reason they don't use an "intercept" style unit is because the ECU and FI systems on cars adapt on the fly, which is one of the reasons why my buddies at PowerChip spend so much time and effort breaking the encryption on the stock ECU's, then getting the thing on a dyno, then remapping the ECU by flashing the ROM.

 

This is not neccessary with an agricultural and old skool system such as the ones that we have on our Guzzi's. Given the sheer number of folks on this forum (including me) that have screwed up their bikes while adding mods, it makes a lot more sense to have a system that you can switch off if you're debugging, leaving the ECU completely stock. It's also handy for emissions if you live in a place that requires bikes to go through that.

 

Look, everyone knows that modern bikes come far too lean from the factories in order to ensure that they pass the various Emissions laws. If the various competitors to PC were viable, i'd think that we'd see "Two Wheels Only" & Bike magazine adding those systems to their bikes as opposed to PC3's. Every single long term bike in Two's test fleet now has a pc3 fitted. Why ? they just work and with minimal fuss. I've been running mine without a custom map for 5 years and have velocity stacks, pods, stucchi crossover, TI pipes, high compression pistons etc etc. Without the pc3 switched on,the bike pings mercilessly, with it, throttle snatch is eliminated and it lifts the front wheel under throttle in 1st and 2nd. It's still a wee bit lean off of closed throttle but then i've never had the bike on a Dyno so thats my laziness.

 

Don't take my word for it, I'd email Todd Eagan. I've just never seen such bizarre opposition to the one universally "smart" modification that all Fuel Injected motorcycles can benefit from.

[luhbo]

Rob, the point is that all what you find so marvelous and easy to be done can today be achieved without any additional peace of hardware with all its possible risks and downsides.

 

You buy a cable and a key for your personal ecu (in this case it's your personal map) from TuneBoy and after that you can apply every PCIIIusb or older correction maps in the same easy way as if you'd have the PC installed, just by reflashing the OEM ecu.

 

That is for those who really think they need a PC map to get their bike going.

 

You could as well just enrich the map here or there about 5% if you like, or lean it out, or reduce spark advance instead, or all together and so on. If you're in doubt about your improvements or if your friendly epa agent recommends it - just go back again.

 

I just find this PC idea a bit oldfashioned nowadays when reflashing has become so easy.

 

I don't think the PC is a silly device, there's probably a lot of professional work behind it and also its case' styling is more but charming with those big gold letters and so, it really can enhance a bike.

 

But I do think that actually there are better solutions on the market as maybe 3 or 4 years ago and I do think that it is silly to negate this fact.

 

Hubert

[canada goose]

My bike is stock except for the Guzzi Ti cans, ECU, and what looks like a BCM air filter (airbox is untouched). Other than the air filter, the bike was stock when I bought it, used. The improvement with the Ti cans and accompanying ECU was considerable. The bike ran better all around, especially in the midrange. The only negative is that it runs slightly rich at low RPM's. I also bought a PC111 and it's still in the box. The bike runs so well, I just can't think of a reason to install it immediately. If I do more mods later on or feel the need to tinker, I'll probably use it. For now, it's staying in the box.

 

Ken

[dlaing]

I really don't understand the whole PC bashing nonesense. I've worked in Computer Software and Hardware most of my after University life and can honestly say that the PC3 is about as idiot proof and easy to install as it gets. Anyone who says otherwise either has an axe to grind or really doesn't know what theyre talking about OR has some vested interest in selling some other solution.

 

I don't think anyone said the PCIII is difficult to install, even for idiots.

 

This is not neccessary with an agricultural and old skool system such as the ones that we have on our Guzzi's. Given the sheer number of folks on this forum (including me) that have screwed up their bikes while adding mods, it makes a lot more sense to have a system that you can switch off if you're debugging, leaving the ECU completely stock. It's also handy for emissions if you live in a place that requires bikes to go through that.

 

 

With TuneBoy, I just reload the old map, assuming, I made a backup

But there you go, another plus for the PCIII, you can just unplug it.

Of course everytime that I have suggested unplugging as a diagnostic, people get all bent out of shape insisting how unlikely it is to fail...perhaps they invested in DynoJet (not to suggest they are unreliable, but they are not invincible)

 

 

Look, everyone knows that modern bikes come far too lean from the factories in order to ensure that they pass the various Emissions laws. If the various competitors to PC were viable, i'd think that we'd see "Two Wheels Only" & Bike magazine adding those systems to their bikes as opposed to PC3's. Every single long term bike in Two's test fleet now has a pc3 fitted. Why ? they just work and with minimal fuss. I've been running mine without a custom map for 5 years and have velocity stacks, pods, stucchi crossover, TI pipes, high compression pistons etc etc. Without the pc3 switched on,the bike pings mercilessly, with it, throttle snatch is eliminated and it lifts the front wheel under throttle in 1st and 2nd. It's still a wee bit lean off of closed throttle but then i've never had the bike on a Dyno so thats my laziness.

 

Don't take my word for it, I'd email Todd Eagan. I've just never seen such bizarre opposition to the one universally "smart" modification that all Fuel Injected motorcycles can benefit from.

What is bizarre is your opposition to the various competitors to the Power Commander

No doubt Power Commanders work great, but so do the alternatives.

There is a solution that will work best for each of us.

I can't believe we have so much freedom of choice for an ECU that is on so few bikes.

Perhaps the Ducati using the 15M made it more viable to develop.

Maybe one of these first Sundays, I'll demo the TuneBoy for you....but unlike the PCiii with quick easy buttons, I have never tuned with TuneBoy on the roadside

[robbiekb]

I don't think anyone said the PCIII is difficult to install, even for idiots.

 

With TuneBoy, I just reload the old map, assuming, I made a backup

But there you go, another plus for the PCIII, you can just unplug it.

Of course everytime that I have suggested unplugging as a diagnostic, people get all bent out of shape insisting how unlikely it is to fail...perhaps they invested in DynoJet (not to suggest they are unreliable, but they are not invincible)

What is bizarre is your opposition to the various competitors to the Power Commander

No doubt Power Commanders work great, but so do the alternatives.

There is a solution that will work best for each of us.

I can't believe we have so much freedom of choice for an ECU that is on so few bikes.

Perhaps the Ducati using the 15M made it more viable to develop.

Maybe one of these first Sundays, I'll demo the TuneBoy for you....but unlike the PCiii with quick easy buttons, I have never tuned with TuneBoy on the roadside

 

touche good point

 

Spending the first 4 years of the bikes life up in Seattle with no aftermarket tuning available, having a PC3 worked for me coz i could take a run to whatever Jap big 4 dealership was around and 9 times out of ten they'd be a powercommander dealer so could help me try to tweak the map. Back in the day, getting someone to dyno a Guzzi in Seattle was like trying to get the red sea to part, Sport bike shops wouldnt touch it and neither would the harley places.

 

god forbid i'd chosen a path less travelled hahahahahahahaha.

 

My particular vehemence comes from the fact that my bike never ran right for the first 3 years of it's life. Mostly my own fault as i threw on a bunch of mods with no access to anyone that could help me tune the bike or get it set up and stock its always been a pig, running really crappily in full stock trim. Finally I prefer to have professionals work on and help set up my bike because in my experience any of the tweaks that i'd try to make would mose likely retard the performance of the machine and the most subject matter expertise thats available to me locally is with the PC3.

 

So if tuneboy works thats awesome, me on the other hand, i'm upgrading to the new pc3 as mine has functioned faithfully for almost 5 years and has a serial port, which my mac laptop doesn't

[RacerX]

Maybe one of these first Sundays, I'll demo the TuneBoy for you....but unlike the PCiii with quick easy buttons, I have never tuned with TuneBoy on the roadside.

 

Cool, bring it with you on Dec. 3rd. I'd like to see a demo.