Political Threads

[g.forrest]

What makes any of you think your living in a democracy, just cause you have a vote dos'nt make it a democracy. The supposed civilised world has conned the public into thinking that polititians listen to them politicians only listen to BIG business and run their countries accordingly. This is why foreign policy is so screwed up we are too busy invading countries to steal their natural resource's on the ordes of big business. What say do we the public have @#!#$# all.

 

totaly in agreement with you! it is sad that it comes down to dollars to win a campaign! election based on incoming dollars and outcomes relevant to income. it is sad that people are swayed by these dollar men and women who will base their policy on the wealthy backers to further their own career and pretend to be a representive of the people! have you not all noticed that it takes more and more dollars to just be in the running in these ''democratic campaigns'' be allert. not just to the proposed threat! but to your local yocal who pretends to be there in your interest.

[Guest Nogbad]

Politics is simply a necessary methodology for running a society. Democracy in its various guises is a method, however faulty, for giving the governed a say in their own government, and that has to be a good thing.

 

Part of the problem is that we have steadily replaced "education" with "training". Being educated is about debating properly, understanding how to inform yourself of the issues of the day, and about knowing how to contribute in a broad way to society.

 

Unfortunately, we are increasingly dumbing down and narrowing our kids' schooling, to the point where most of them are simply "vocationally trained" to become D-grade work units in some economic machine. Historically, the great religions in fact did a great deal of good in the way of education, and this was followed by the awakening of science with the renaissance. Since then, it has been largely downhill.

 

For democracy to work, the voters need some ability to sort the choices and make informed decisions. Unfortunately, in the modern world, most voters are disillusioned wage and tax slaves who have neither the time nor the inclination to get properly involved, and just follow whichever pundit they happen to hear last.

[DeBenGuzzi]

Politics is simply a necessary methodology for running a society. Democracy in its various guises is a method, however faulty, for giving the governed a say in their own government, and that has to be a good thing.

 

Part of the problem is that we have steadily replaced "education" with "training". Being educated is about debating properly, understanding how to inform yourself of the issues of the day, and about knowing how to contribute in a broad way to society.

 

Unfortunately, we are increasingly dumbing down and narrowing our kids' schooling, to the point where most of them are simply "vocationally trained" to become D-grade work units in some economic machine. Historically, the great religions in fact did a great deal of good in the way of education, and this was followed by the awakening of science with the renaissance. Since then, it has been largely downhill.

 

For democracy to work, the voters need some ability to sort the choices and make informed decisions. Unfortunately, in the modern world, most voters are disillusioned wage and tax slaves who have neither the time nor the inclination to get properly involved, and just follow whichever pundit they happen to hear last.

 

at first I thought this thread would get shut down b4 it got anywhere. But even if my views differ from anyone here this thread so far has to be a much better example of how to debate politics. BUT I wonder, will it last?

and 80/80 is that the middle favoring right? I don't know I always thought I was somewhere in the middle democrate, took a quiz said I was republican.

I think stem cell research is completely fine, no one is being hurt or cloned from it(cloneing is kinda ok too cause nature does it as well its called twins) Abortion I am not for it but I think in a limited capacity it is needed, it should not be allowed to be used as birth control but other reasons should be accepted but really I am not a woman and its not my body, I think the enviroment should be saved as best that it can, there should be more parks(larger) and better land almost all of southern MN is now suburbia. <_ i think hydrogen fuel cell and electric cars or ethenol should be developed now oil isn going to last forever secondly get our money out of terrorist hands at least countries that loathe the western world for middle east has been a problem years it doesn look like its gonna any better say we pull iraq while afganistan germany japan south america africa asia erect high fence around whole country src="%7B___base_url___%7D/uploads/emoticons/default_laugh.png" alt=":lol:"> well not really but status quo isn't apparently working. I think taxes should be much lower and the money more closly watched and allocated my taxes went up another 8% this year and another 8% for next year. so in a 20 years I'll be paying 160% tax ah well I try not to get too deep into things because I have a long hour job, full time school and a family with a needy dog, Inbetween doing all that homework and a cigar I haven't any time left to worry about what a politician is doing or even what the issues are at the moment

[Guest ratchethack]

Politics is simply a necessary methodology for running a society. Democracy in its various guises is a method, however faulty, for giving the governed a say in their own government, and that has to be a good thing.

 

Part of the problem is that we have steadily replaced "education" with "training". Being educated is about debating properly, understanding how to inform yourself of the issues of the day, and about knowing how to contribute in a broad way to society.

 

Unfortunately, we are increasingly dumbing down and narrowing our kids' schooling, to the point where most of them are simply "vocationally trained" to become D-grade work units in some economic machine. Historically, the great religions in fact did a great deal of good in the way of education, and this was followed by the awakening of science with the renaissance. Since then, it has been largely downhill.

 

For democracy to work, the voters need some ability to sort the choices and make informed decisions. Unfortunately, in the modern world, most voters are disillusioned wage and tax slaves who have neither the time nor the inclination to get properly involved, and just follow whichever pundit they happen to hear last.

Well said, Nog. In this country, "education" today has been supplanted by indoctrination in public schools. Analytical thinking and deductive reasoning, once actually well taught from grade-school on up as recently as several decades ago, are long GONE today.

 

The concept of universal principles of truth are nowhere to be found under such vacuous shibboleths as "openness". Is it any wonder that graduates possess no principles? Such concepts and skills are NOT inherent. They must be learned, practiced, nurtured, and developed. Their absence is entirely lost on the ignorant, who have no comprehension of their meaning, nor any conception of the consequences of their absence.

 

These skills, after all, are not only useless to the Socialist model, whereby individuals are useful only as robotic units of production for the purpose of serving the State via an ever-increasing tax burden, they are actually a clear and present threat to its development and emergence.

 

During the entire education of my son all the way through secondary school, I haven't met more than a tiny handful of teachers, including Principals, testing administrators, or school counselors (and I've met with and talked at length to many dozens of them), who possess the faintest clue about what analytical thinking or deductive reasoning are. Teachers themselves have been "trained" for allegiance to a rigid "ideology" of education, which overrides all else, and depends on acceptance of dogma without analysis. It has dumbed down our Nation from #1 on the planet in education 50 years ago to somewhere around #20 today, with no signs of reformation on the horizon.

 

Is it any wonder today that democracies are so vulnerable, so easily infected with, and are now in danger of being brought down by the re-emergence of the fear and hatred of tribal barbarism that has been the standard of the 3rd world for well over a dozen centuries? The perceptions of terrorists that they have an opening through which to drive Western Civilization back to barbarism is not entirely without validity. They're on to something, and we've been feeding their perceptions.

[Steve G.]

What makes any of you think your living in a democracy, just cause you have a vote dos'nt make it a democracy. The supposed civilised world has conned the public into thinking that polititians listen to them politicians only listen to BIG business and run their countries accordingly. This is why foreign policy is so screwed up we are too busy invading countries to steal their natural resource's on the ordes of big business. What say do we the public have @#!#$# all.

I liken the political situation in many free countries these days [mine included] as a soft dictatorship, interupted every 4 yrs or so by one day of democracy [voting day]. 50% plus 1 vote, gets all the power.

Ciao, Steve

[Pierre]

... I would ask you more about this, but I am trying to go cold turkey on the politics.

... and it surely reaffirmed my belief that we can do something to reduce the increase in global warming, and how enlightened the left wing and most scientists are. I suppose middle of the roaders and right wingers might not agree with that.

 

That didn't last long.

 

 

[dlaing]

That didn't last long.

That was nothing.

This thread is meant for closure.

What? Do think the Righties are gonna disagree that they disagree with me?

Why don't you keep Ratchet in line in my abscence?

[Guest Nogbad]

These skills, after all, are not only useless to the Socialist model, whereby individuals are useful only as robotic units of production for the purpose of serving the State via an ever-increasing tax burden, they are actually a clear and present threat to its development and emergence.

 

What you need to remember is that untrammelled capitalism without responsibility is as much a cause of slavery as is bureaucratic socialism. The socialist state merely replaces the private individual slave owner with an institutionalised equivalent that is in some ways more difficult to fight.

 

Also, the origin of socialism itself was a response to the fact of persistent feudalism and a failure to share the fruits of scientific advancement with the majority. After all, the Marxian premise of "From each according to his ability and to each according to his need" is in essence altruistic and utopian. The Marxist dream foundered simply because its paradigm could never match the human condition. People are a mixture of altruism and selfishness, and both need to be accommodated. I for one would not be willing to work hard and use my ability if I got the same as a vast leisured class, I might as well be leisured too.

 

So, the trick is in striking a good balance of regulation versus unfettered laissez faire, and you will find it is the proportion of each that we argue over.

 

A good democracy is one that gives the best accountability to the people, so that tax money is well spent, and a class of pork barrel bureaucrats is not created at the expense of hard working people.

 

In America, you STILL have the best system, as at a local and state level you can throw out governors, police chiefs, DAs etc. We can't do that here. Your problem is that too much power is vested in the President, and it is hard to call him to account mid term.

[Alex-Corsa]

I liken the political situation in many free countries these days [mine included] as a soft dictatorship, interupted every 4 yrs or so by one day of democracy [voting day]. 50% plus 1 vote, gets all the power.

Ciao, Steve

 

You can say that again.! It's all a joke. 50% +1 is crap. Aristotele said : 'The voted is oligarchic the picked out of the lot is democratic.'' Sorry bout the translation. but it's about that meaning.

''Protection of personal data'', and so on, but they spy on your bank account, anything you buy,anyone you phone, ect. ect. It's the modern days peepers as I call them.

Soft dictatorship that's what it is, delicatelly ''cut'' on how and at what people of each place can bear and the people accept it just because on their point of view and ''safety''it will be easy for them when something goes wrong to point their finger and say there , that , this..

[Steve G.]

Well said, Nog. In this country, "education" today has been supplanted by indoctrination in public schools. Analytical thinking and deductive reasoning, once actually well taught from grade-school on up as recently as several decades ago, are long GONE today.

 

The concept of universal principles of truth are nowhere to be found under such vacuous shibboleths as "openness". Is it any wonder that graduates possess no principles? Such concepts and skills are NOT inherent. They must be learned, practiced, nurtured, and developed. Their absence is entirely lost on the ignorant, who have no comprehension of their meaning, nor any conception of the consequences of their absence.

 

These skills, after all, are not only useless to the Socialist model, whereby individuals are useful only as robotic units of production for the purpose of serving the State via an ever-increasing tax burden, they are actually a clear and present threat to its development and emergence.

 

During the entire education of my son all the way through secondary school, I haven't met more than a tiny handful of teachers, including Principals, testing administrators, or school counselors (and I've met with and talked at length to many dozens of them), who possess the faintest clue about what analytical thinking or deductive reasoning are. Teachers themselves have been "trained" for allegiance to a rigid "ideology" of education, which overrides all else, and depends on acceptance of dogma without analysis. It has dumbed down our Nation from #1 on the planet in education 50 years ago to somewhere around #20 today, with no signs of reformation on the horizon.

 

Is it any wonder today that democracies are so vulnerable, so easily infected with, and are now in danger of being brought down by the re-emergence of the fear and hatred of tribal barbarism that has been the standard of the 3rd world for well over a dozen centuries? The perceptions of terrorists that they have an opening through which to drive Western Civilization back to barbarism is not entirely without validity. They're on to something, and we've been feeding their perceptions.

 

I find myself in the unique position of agreeing 100% with Ratchethack on his comments above. The school system is indeed an indoctrination process run by the indoctrinated. The result is a youth without the most basic common sense to run their lives without the help of "higher purpose persons", and of course "big brother" himself. Kids coming out of school think that a slotted screwdriver is for mixing their Starbucks coffee, think that there's a button to turn on a tape measure, and have "McDonalds drive through syndrom", the belief that anything, any service, is but a 3 minute crawl to the pay booth. I see it every day when 20 yr olds come into my shop, and are shocked that the installation of their windshield in their '05 Acura will take longer than 10 minutes. We can all thank the socialist thinking that has corrupted the teaching system.

Ciao, Steve

[dlaing]

That didn't last long.

The point is I have to resist their baiting....so far, so good.

If I ignore the you know what, and just look at what I agree with like the "Skool Sux!" theme, all is good.

Heck, I think I can even abstain from defending PETA in the link TX posted

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...ic=9409&hl=

[DeBenGuzzi]

Heck, I think I can even abstain from defending PETA

DON'T even get me started on PETA, ELF thats all I have to say to that, they support and possibly fund ELF.

 

although, they might be starting to sway me...

but alas, I a tiger can't change his spots...

I gotta have one of these b4 I die

it might kill me I know, but I'm willing to take that risk.

[dlaing]

Maybe School Sucking could be a good thing

But even with a great teacher, school can still suck...

[jihem]

The point is I have to resist their baiting....so far, so good.

 

 

good. If in doubt, just look at the drawing you posted the other day and think where your rather park your bike

 

[Richard]

"Democracy is the worst form of Government....

Save from all the others."

 

Winston Churchill