Failure!!

[badmotogoozer]

 

Torquing is a snap, just a matter of calculating the added distance, no big deal at all.

 

Without getting into another long winded argument, I would disagree with the simplicity of calculation. It is more than calculating the difference in length, but also the difference in moment at one end of the "lever" to the moment applied at the other end, with the measure of the moment somewhere in the center. It requires a fair bit of calculus to get it right.

 

Just using the ratio of lengths "ballparks" you but far from "exact" - the acceptance of something that is not exact was the rib I was making to Ratch (who we all know has a fondness for exactness )

 

cheers!

 

Rj

[Guest ratchethack]

It requires a fair bit of calculus to get it right.

No calculus required, just very elementary algebra. It's a commonly used formula, quite handy for those who've relied on it as I have from time to time.

 

Formula for calculating addition of an adapter to a torque wrench

 

(TA x L) / (L + A) = TW

 

where:

 

Length (L) = effective length of the torque wrench used

Desired torque (TA) = the torque value designated for the fastener

Added length of adapter (A) = the radial length from center of the adapter drive to the center of the wrench square drive

New setting (TW) = the torque setting (reading) on the wrench allowing for the added length of the adapter.

 

Ryan - be sure to check my physics & math, and let me know where I've made any mistakes.

 

Here's a backup resource with mathematical proof provided, and a handy online calculator:

 

http://www.engineersedge.com/manufacturing...ue_wrench_1.htm

 

For those uncomfortable with calculations and/or of the opinion that anything that appears on the Web is suspect, and therefore has no value whatsoever, where possible, (and as a proof check) an adapter may simply be set at 90 degrees to the torque wrench arm with negligible effect on the reading at the dial.

[badmotogoozer]

Holds true only if all are aligned - any misalignment from dead straight involves calculus. Dead straight only occurs if the connection between the extension and wrench is thus manufactured. Most often, the extension will not be straight due to the relationship between the squares of the two items. A second variable comes from the addition of length along the z axis (if done carefully, this is can be neglected)

 

A modern wrench that gives way when torque is reached - this can be adjusted to attain alignment. On a 1970 style bar bend wrench it is difficult, if not impossible to attain.

 

Let's get back to the thread topic now please and let go of the "who's right and who's wrong" argument. I'm not posting again on this. This was only meant as a little rib...

 

Yer a dog with a bone!

 

Rj

[Guest ratchethack]

Somehow, even before I posted, I knew I was wrong. But I was pretty sure I'd be set straight. . . . . . .

[badmotogoozer]

On the contrary, my friend, I said you were correct! With a caveat...

 

This same topic sparked weeks of discussion/debate on the Bevelheads list when I came across the same problem of torquing down the heads on my Duc. Couldn't get a straight alignment with my bar type wrench and the extension to get an accurate torque reading... I'm not sure the issue was ever put to rest...

 

cheers,

 

Rj

[dlaing]

Somehow, even before I posted, I knew I was wrong and would be sure to be set straight. . . . . . .

Clown phobia

[badmotogoozer]

hey staedtler - the natives are getting restless with anticipation! What's the verdict??

 

My money's still on a loosened filter...

 

Rj

[Alex-Corsa]

What was finnaly happened to the Staedler's bike ?, do I miss something?

 

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Sorry there badmotogoozer but the system Ratchet mentioned is a standard, recognized system used when adapters are required . The results are well within manufacturer's spec. "Exact" ? These were street bikes getting a remedy for a stretched big end.Exact enough. Not everyone had a whole pile of money . The bikes were worth a few hundred bucks in many cases and spending half the bike's value for a total teardown was not very practical. When a bike came in for a top end the rods often had excessive clearance caused by out of round bearing bores. The crank itself was fine.

 

I'm Not sure what you mean by "manufactured" A weldment made up from jig bored parts to tool room tolerance is probably more accurate than a "manufactured" production line part. The adapter in this case was indeed quite straight."Weldment" does not mean "crude" BTW, I never owned a bending beam type torque wrench, not even in the 1970s.

 

Results can be verified on the torque wrench calibration stand. Every good shop has one. The extension on the Z axis is nil, out of square etc are all operating practices that apply with varying degrees depending upon the setup and application.

Bottom line is the bikes ran fine, your torque concerns are moot..

If the calculus guys had done their job we wouldn't have been pulling the rods and resizing them, let alone making steel caps or 7075 billet caps for the more serious work with these engines. Of course the more serious engines had a lot more work done on the bottom end. The Britbikes left many opportunities for improvement. If you weren't interested in improvement you could do everything "by the book" If you wanted reliabilty you found better ways. A well put together BSA is a pretty darn good engine. A BSA A65 put together by the book was not a well put together engine.

 

badmotogoozer quote: Bet I could have one apart and back together before you could make a special wrench."

............How much? I'll make it easy on you. I'll make the wrench and do two engines before you get yours back into the frame.

 

At the time we might do 6 or 8 bearing replacements in a month. In any event the time spent on tooling was not a factor.

 

Wonder how many of the "loosened "filters were torqued in place? Probably the least accurate installation method of the bunch.

[badmotogoozer]

[Guest Gary Cheek]

[badmotogoozer]

[dlaing]

Gary has a cheeky sense of humor

[Guest StevePorscheS2]

This saturday by the end of my ride something went terribly wrong.

the bike ran great all afternoon, right at dusk i headed home and so i noticed a light click clikck while riding, i had my earplugs and was going quite fast, then the bike started jerking violently and loosing steam, the oil light came up, i coasted down to about 40mph and made it to the gas station at the entry of the road i was coming from, it's right at the entry to the hill country (not that it matters). Anyway, the bike just made it there as long as i didn't try to givi it gas or move the throttle at all, could not engage the clutch without the bike jerking violently and risking stalling it. So as soon as i made it to the gas station and the bike slowed down it died... the oil light was on, then the battery light too, when it stopped the lights were still on, i tried to start the bike but it was a no go. So i pushed the bike under the canopy of the station and proceded to have a diet pepsi and a smoke...called for help, and while waiting i try to fire the bike up again. It did started, but it sounded like somebody threw a bag of nuts and bolts down a staircase!!

I'm afraid something major blew up in there..! I'll trailer it to the mechanic tomorrow tuesday to find out.

It sucks.. i hope is not going to be to expensive.

looks like i'll have to buy everything under Mike Rich Motorsports catalog... or FBF.

i'd bet something failed but i have no idea what

 

I keep y'all posted

 

(it sucks )

[badmotogoozer]

Goozer is nearly out of the closet

 

Sorry Gary, I don't swing that way. I don't care how cute you are or how many times you drop your drawers for me - not interested.

 

Rj