Guest John T Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 Well folks, I'm done with the mods on the Rosso and I'm very happy. Engine mods: Mike Rich head work, ported and flowed with racing valve springs and hardened valves. Carrillo rods, engine lightened and balanced. Megacycle 620X9 cam Stucchi crossover Agostini cf slip ons Drilled airbox with K&N filter Power Commander with new custom map I wanted more power but also wanted a very well behaved engine. In other words, I was looking for the ultimate Guzzi street motor. I think I finally found it. The Megacycle 620X9 cam is a direct drop in Cam with no other modifications needed to the valve train except for stiffer valve springs to help with the more radical cam lobes. As you can see by the graph there is no downside to this cam at all. (I will have todd do an overlay of the two soon) More hp at all revs and torque is much improved. This engine just pounds out the thrust when you crack the throttle. There are no more flat spots and the engine does not need to be revved to hell to get the power. The cam along with the Carrillo rods and the much needed lightening and balancing make this a very snappy revving Guzzi! I'm sure you could get more peak hp out of a Guzzi two valver, but then the trade offs for the street would be too much for me. So, no more peak hp than before (90.3) but more hp and torque (71) all over, very noticable. Oh yeah, it starts right up, idles perfect and has PERFECT drivability!! Not a pop, sputter or fart to be had. check out this right up and the dyno graph on Todds Guzzitech page here: http://www.guzzitech.com/JTsRosso-PtII-John_T.html )
dlaing Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 Excellent boost in power from 4000 to over 6000 rpms since your last posted dyno that was already pretty awesome! I can see how you are now SATISFIED
Guest toutizes Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 I could not wait to see how your three dyno runs compared so I overlayed them with photoshop. The torque increase is indeed quite impressive in run number 3 (in green here). Wow! Congrats! matthieu
dlaing Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 Hey! Are these numbers fudged?!?! At 3500RPMs the torque number difference between run2 and run3 is great, but not the HP numbers. Was the dyno operator smoking something? Or maybe it has something to do with the true difference between torque and HP?
Lex Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 While we are wondering about the smoking habits of the dyno operator I'll add that the torque and HP runs in green do not cross are 5250 RPM. Given that the formula for HP is Torque X RPM / 5250 these curves can not cross at nearly 6K RPM as shown. Very curious, Lex
Guest toutizes Posted June 6, 2003 Posted June 6, 2003 Maybe I screwed-up when I pasted one run over the other. I'll double check. matthieu
Guest John T Posted June 7, 2003 Posted June 7, 2003 Easy there folks, no fudge around here. When you get the results they are printed on two different graphs for easy reading when you overlay a lot of runs. The scale is at a different starting point on the HP and torque page. If you read them both starting at zero, they do indeed cross at 5250 rpm. I'll try to get an overlay that reflects this. OTOH, I took a long ride yesterday with my usual riding pals. Kinda feels like driving a big block late 60's Chevy that has been heavily worked on. Torque is a good thing!
Guest John T Posted June 7, 2003 Posted June 7, 2003 Here is the last dyno run with the torque and hp as they should be.
dlaing Posted June 8, 2003 Posted June 8, 2003 That's more like it. Awesome machine. I imagine you should be able to pull red line in top gear pretty effortlessly. Nice. I just got 5 more HP on my bike from the pcIII, but because of my Quat-D muffler, I am getting less HP than your bike did when stock. Drat! Oh, well. It is still great to see the potential of our bikes.
Guest scottd132 Posted June 8, 2003 Posted June 8, 2003 John, I thought I saw on another site that you had installed the FBF 11:1 pistons? I am interested in similar engine work and curious if you installed them and removed them or if this was someone else, thoughts? Scott in Seattle
Guest John T Posted June 8, 2003 Posted June 8, 2003 Hi Scott, No not me, never had the hi-comp pistons. Two mods that I did not do was Timing gears and pistons. The gears were not done because of reports of aluminum gears galling and steel gears exploding. I read about this on numerous other sites and Mike Rich concurred. Hi comp pistons I was warned against for durabilty and longevity reasons. Hi compression pistons will generate a lot more heat and stress some components more. Not sure what gains can be realized. Now don't take me wrong, these mods do work, but may best be suited for an engine that might be raced. I was looking for a great street engine and I did not want to sacrifice long term durability. I am curiouse to see before and after Dyno runs with the hi-comp pistons though.........who knows, I may change my mind!
dlaing Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 I am curiouse to see before and after Dyno runs with the hi-comp pistons though.........who knows, I may change my mind! It is not a before and after, but the results from Moto Euro Magazine's Fast by Ferracci V11Sport are pretty inspiring. They took a 77HP stock engine and got a claimed 95 or 96 HP from 11:1 pistons, airbox kit, porting, bigger valves, H-pipe crossover and FBF carbon slip-ons. My guess is the pistons were responsible for atleast 5HP. The graph in the moto euro's article, (spring 2003) shows a power curve pretty similar to yours, but with a little more starting at about 5000rpm. 74ft-lbs at about 5700rpm. Of course, not all dynos read the same, and your curve appears to smoooother. With Hi compression pistons you might have to start worrying about retarding the timing and carrying octane booster around with you. I'll bet the biggest dividends are when experiencing thin air. I think the guy who owns the Moto Euro bike lives at about 5000ft above sea level.
Murray Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 I don't think pistons alone would be worth 5hp. 5hp out a guzzi motor is a significant gain and uless you did the breathing mods to take advantage of it simply chucking a set of pistions would probally do little to nothing to the prefomance.
Guest jeremy Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 WOW you almost have the power of my centauro Just Kidding, accually because of the torque #s and the 6 speed you could probably eat my centauro. job well done
al_roethlisberger Posted June 21, 2003 Posted June 21, 2003 Well, I don't have the cam nor "lightened and balanced" engine, but for the most part I have everything described above... oh and I have "pods" right now instead of the K&N in the airbox. After getting the custom map done at Hare Racing, it came out to 82.4HP and 64.4 ft-lbs torque. Not bad. The peak HP was about the same before and after the map, although it was almost 5HP higher across the map afterwards, with an especially smoothed out curve between 6.5 and 7.5 RPM. Torque was also increased significantly and evenly across the board, but there's still a dip in the graph at 4-5k RPM, albeit smaller than stock. They are emailing me the map and graph, and I'll post them ASAP. Of course, I'm still having the bike die at idle, and "miss" and "cough" while idling. It was doing it in the right TB, but now after the work at the dealer last month, and the new PCIII map, it's doing it in the left. I'll check the balance this weekend. It's possible I knocked something out of kilter while working under the tank for these last couple weeks. al
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