V11 Le Mans Fork Upgrade

[profWacko]

This is on a 2004 Le Mans.

 

Ok, I know I'm going to replace the springs with something stiffer, but what's the most cost-effective fork damper upgrade besides a fluid change to lighter viscosity?

 

If it's Ohlins, I'll just have to bite the bullet and do that, but is there anything that's reasonable for less money?

 

ADVthanksANCE

 

-Jack

PS: Just what year is this bike anyway? I have pictures downloaded from guzzi_usa a while back of a red/black Le Mans just like mine that says 2003 is the model year. My title says 2005. Is the model year determined by the build date on the frame? I'll look mine up the next time I take off the tank.

[Guest ratchethack]

Proffessor W., what are you trying to achieve WRT damping modifications? The options might be nearly as limitless as your willingness to throw money at it.

 

IMHO this neck o' the woods is full of the dreadful threat of SALES HYPE -- caveat emptor!!!!

 

Making it "better" is entirely subjective, and many around these parts will recommend vastly different things as universal snake-oil cure-alls that, well, (ahem) IMHO in many cases, aren't quite.

 

There are re-valving and replacement "racing" emulator solutions available that cost nearly as much as entirely new forks, probably more money than a set of used forks.

 

I've seen guys replace their Marz forks with Ohlins without ever having anywhere near a proper match of spring rate to load on the Marz forks, thereby never experiencing what the Marz forks were capable of. To each his own.

 

The achievement of "total spiritual creaminess" WRT fork damping may have as much to do with what you're willing to swallow in terms of "a new mental perspective".

 

The fundamentals are pretty simple, and IMHO for road use by 99.99% of riders, IMHO there's no justification for the latest, high-zoot "racing" solutions. But then, I'm merely a crotchety old Road Geez.

 

AAA, TJM, & YMMV

[Alex-Corsa]

I've seen guys replace their Marz forks with Ohlins without ever having anywhere near a proper match of spring rate to load on the Marz forks, thereby never experiencing what the Marz forks were capable of. To each his own.

 

But if one updates to an öhlins that is used on other Guzzis from factory (i.e. Cafe sport, ect.ect.) won't it be O.K.?

[Guest ratchethack]

But if one updates to an öhlins that is used on other Guzzis from factory (i.e. Cafe sport, ect.ect.) won't it be O.K.?

Sure, no problem. Works fine. Ask Dave Laing, he's done it. I reckon it cost him about 10X the price of a properly matched set of springs for the Marz fork, and gave him "maybe" some kind of an improvement in road manners that "maybe" could be detected by "maybe" a few non-racer-types on the road. He'll never know what the difference might've been, as he never had matched springs in the Marz for an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

Now he has forks that have to be dismantled for new seals on average every 6K miles (this is according to one account I read -- not verified by me), as opposed to his original Marz forks, which according to my own experience, can go for at least 31K (and counting) on seals without leaking.

 

Like I said, "To each his own."

[profWacko]

>>"total spiritual creaminess"

 

Isn't that what we all want?

 

Thanks for the perspective, though.

 

I totally agree with you that just switching to the lower viscosity fluid along with the spring change will likely get me 90% of TSC (total spiritual creaminess).

 

Next last 10% probably comes with a huge price disparity.

 

I had .95 non-progressive springs and an Ohlins out back on my previous V11 Le Mans, and it was pretty damn good.

 

This one should come out better due to the upgraded Marz units in front. Ya figure?

 

Phlegm at Eleven.

 

-Jack

[guzzi jon]

Proffessor W., what are you trying to achieve WRT damping modifications? The options might be nearly as limitless as your willingness to throw money at it.

 

IMHO this neck o' the woods is full of the dreadful threat of SALES HYPE -- caveat emptor!!!!

 

Making it "better" is entirely subjective, and many around these parts will recommend vastly different things as universal snake-oil cure-alls that, well, (ahem) IMHO in many cases, aren't quite. <_>

 

There are re-valving and replacement "racing" emulator solutions available that cost nearly as much as entirely new forks, probably more money than a set of used forks.

 

I've seen guys replace their Marz forks with Ohlins without ever having anywhere near a proper match of spring rate to load on the Marz forks, thereby never experiencing what the Marz forks were capable of. To each his own.

 

The achievement of "total spiritual creaminess" WRT fork damping may have as much to do with what you're willing to swallow in terms of "a new mental perspective".

 

The fundamentals are pretty simple, and IMHO for road use by 99.99% of riders, IMHO there's no justification for the latest, high-zoot "racing" solutions. But then, I'm merely a crotchety old Road Geez.

 

AAA, TJM, & YMMV

 

 

I inistalled straight wound traxxion dynamics springs along with a nicer oil and preload spacer, made my Lemans better sorted for heavy or high speed work, still room for improvememt. but nice

 

quote name='profWacko' date='Dec 13 2006, 01:36 AM' post='109458']

This is on a 2004 Le Mans.

 

Ok, I know I'm going to replace the springs with something stiffer, but what's the most cost-effective fork damper upgrade besides a fluid change to lighter viscosity?

 

If it's Ohlins, I'll just have to bite the bullet and do that, but is there anything that's reasonable for less money?

 

ADVthanksANCE

 

-Jack

PS: Just what year is this bike anyway? I have pictures downloaded from guzzi_usa a while back of a red/black Le Mans just like mine that says 2003 is the model year. My title says 2005. Is the model year determined by the build date on the frame? I'll look mine up the next time I take off the tank.

[Alex-Corsa]

 

Now he has forks that have to be dismantled for new seals on average every 6K miles (this is according to one account I read -- not verified by me), as opposed to his original Marz forks, which according to my own experience, can go for at least 31K (and counting) on seals without leaking.

 

Well about the seals , i believe it is a great deal on how you can preserve them from dust.I clean as often as I can any kind of dust from the forks' legs all the way where the seals touch, so i have about 25+k km now and counting. Avoid also wet driving as much as I can,as well.

i don't think on changing my WP , for the reasons you mentioned (perhaps some springs will be added latter) plus they are easy on maitainance.

BTW , hoe do I find what kid of springs do I get in there? Don't need any harder , just the same. Does the manual states , or do I just have to open the forks and count the length, and what about preload strangth and so on, (perhaps WP has the same standard on this length and don't need to further search? )

 

Any idea what the springs can cost.

I can get new WP like mine for 300-350Euro in ebay though.

[Greg Field]

I re-sprung and re-oiled the Marzocchi forks on my '04 Billy Bob. THey work well, but they do not work like Ohlins I replaced them with. I'm not sure the Ohlins increase in performance is entirely justified by the cost, but they are substantialy better than my Marzokes were.

[docc]

But when you swap the forks on an early Sport doesn't that mean changing axles and the fender and . . . what else?

 

For Jack's '04 this is more straight-forward, yes?

[dlaing]

Sure, no problem. Works fine. Ask Dave Laing, he's done it. I reckon it cost him about 10X the price of a properly matched set of springs for the Marz fork, and gave him "maybe" some kind of an improvement in road manners that "maybe" could be detected by "maybe" a few non-racer-types on the road. He'll never know what the difference might've been, as he never had matched springs in the Marz for an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

Now he has forks that have to be dismantled for new seals on average every 6K miles (this is according to one account I read -- not verified by me), as opposed to his original Marz forks, which according to my own experience, can go for at least 31K (and counting) on seals without leaking.

 

Like I said, "To each his own."

9000 miles in 1.5 years on the third hand Ohlins, and no leak...knock on wood.

You get what you pay for, but with diminishing returns for your hard earned dollars.

I probably paid nearly 20X the price of a properly matched set of springs for the Marz fork

I could have paid even 30X-40X and gotten the Superbike forks instead of the R&T.

In any case, the result of the R&T forks from a Cafe Sport is spectacular

Can I go any faster? Probably only on curvy, bumpy roads.

Where it really shines is in the comfort department.

I still need to increase the spring weight a little as it is probably the perfect weight for touring, but for sport touring it should be firmer, but with MORE bike only sag.

I weigh about 215 plus leathers and other gear.

I am running a 475#/inch spring and it is too soft, but matches the Ohlins pretty well.

I will get a better shock for more than 10X what I paid for the rear spring, but until I do I will put up with the cushy spring in the Ohlins forks.

I am still debating HyperPro$750 vs. Penske$1050. Both have three way damping adjustment. The HyperPro has a progressive spring that MAY be too firm(one way to find out)

I have requests in with HyperProUSA and Lindemann Engineering to see if they can build it to the length and travel that Ohlins specifies for our bike, 286mm length, eye to eye, and 70mm travel.

From what I understand so far, the minimum shock body length may prohibit it reaching the Ohlins dimensions. I'll see how close they can get it.

If it is not close enough, I may have to "settle" for Ohlins

I believe Ratchethack prefers dimensions closer to the Sachs' 276mm/60mm that results in less shaft angle, which should prolong the life of the shaft and transfer power better.

YMMV

 

But when you swap the forks on an early Sport doesn't that mean changing axles and the fender and . . . what else?

 

For Jack's '04 this is more straight-forward, yes?

going to the Cafe sport Ohlins I had to change the fender, the axle, axle nut, axle washer, the bearing spacer, and one of the bearings.

Mike Stewart sold me the forks, the carbon fiber fender, the Ducati axle, one new bearing, and he custom made me a bearing spacer on his lathe

The bearing spacer was the only thing I feared having trouble sourcing, but it is simple and could been made cheaply.

 

Although I really like the Ohlins, for about half the $2000 I paid for the Ohlins set up, I could have paid Traxxion about $1000 for springs and revalving.

I think that may be a better way to go.

However some people have gotten Ohlins for under $1500.

One strategy would be to re-spring now, and then keep your eyes open for Ohlins forks.

Someone has New Ohlins for sale for about 1500 Euros, was it Teo Lamers???

[Guest Mattress]

It is an opinion war, but HMB claims to have a shit load of Oehlins forks for sale. Seems they bought up a lot of Guzzi seconds.

[dlaing]

It is an opinion war, but HMB claims to have a shit load of Oehlins forks for sale. Seems they bought up a lot of Guzzi seconds.

Yah, that is the place.

http://www.hmb-guzzi.de/

I seem to recall they were previously marketing them on eBay

[Guzzirider]

Yes there is often a set for sale on there- very cheap compared to the list price. He also sells both versions of the Marzocchi fork for the V11.

 

Best feature of the Ohlins is ride quality and comfort- the roads are very bumpy on the moors around here and my bike stays in a straight line while fellow riders are complaining of being thrown out of their seat.

 

You can undoubtedly ugrade the Marzocchi forks (am in the process of getting this done for H's bike) but those without Ohlins will always have a secret powerful lust for the gold forks and pretend they don't want them.

 

Come to me, my precious, beautiful gold forks are all mine.......

 

[Baldini]

... new seals on average every 6K miles ...

 

That's about right on my 02 Scura (kept clean, little winter or rain use). My understanding is that the Ohlins are designed primarily for low mileage sports use with all that implies. They run relaxed seals for lower stiction (try the action on these forks to see for yourself, there is very little stiction). Seal replacement is straightforward, the forks are well made & easy to work on.

 

...Best feature of the Ohlins is ride quality and comfort...

 

...AND...the adjustability. Once you're in the ballpark with correct springs Ohlins forks can be tuned very accurately. Both forks carry rebound/compression adjusters with a wide range of adjustment. They work extremely well & each clik effects a small but precise & noticeable change. You have to decide for yourself if this is something you want. Now I've had it, I do.

 

KB

[Greg Field]

I third or fourth the comment about the comfort improvement of the Ohlins. If both ohlins and Marzes are eaually well adjusted for spring and damping, the Ohlins provides a noticably more comfortable ride, gliding over bumps you can clearly feel with the Marzes. I am fortunate to work in a bike shop and get to ride a lot of bikes with Ohlins and with other forks. The superior ride comfort of the Ohlins is something I've een able to feel and appreciate on every such ride. That's why the cost was worth it to me. The cost is high, though, no matter where you get them.