V11 Le Mans Fork Upgrade

[Guest rosso mandello]

[quote(ratchethack @ Dec 13 2006, 01:38 AM)

I've seen guys replace their Marz forks with Ohlins without ever having anywhere near a proper match of spring rate to load on the Marz forks, thereby never experiencing what the Marz forks were capable of. To each his own.

 

 

Can anyone out there tell me, how a typically set up is for at 100 kg rider who want to have fun in curbs and likes a sporty setup.

And now we are at it, how about the rear suspension.

 

x mas greetings Mogens.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

I pretty much agree with Ratchet's perspective on this one.

 

I had two V11s at the same time. One, a plain Jane 2001 Sport the other a Scura. I had sprnt quite q bit of time with the Sport suspension and was satisfied with it. Perhaps by the time I got to the Scura I wasn't prepared to spend the time required to "get it right". There was no hope with the stock springing and in general I liked the Sport a lot better for other reasons. The seals on the Scura crapped out near the 5K mark and I was told to expect to do it again by 10K(Per the Ohlins rep). At my age I prefer riding over short maintenance intervals, not that the seals are all that much work. The slightly tuned Sport suspension is fine with me, but I ain't all that fussy. If I were after the last smidgen of performance I probably would ride something other than a Guzzi in anyhow.

 

It is all relative but if you are in to tuning, the Ohlins have a bit more to offer...at a price.

[dlaing]

So, you have many options, all of which assume you will use a premium liquid in the forks.

 

Don't do anything and be the scorn of people like you know who. Price: Free! why labor?

 

Modify the spacers, this is very inexpensive, basically just your labor.

 

Get new springs to match the lardiness of your derriere, Price:a little over $100 plus labor.

 

Send the forks to an expert for springs and revalving, Price: maybe about $1000, but you may lose damping adjustability. plus the labor of you removing the forks and shipping them.

 

Get a pair of Ohlins R&T Price:new about $2500 after necessary modifiications, plus labor. You could save a lot of money if you buy them second hand.

 

Get a pair of Ohlins SuperBike Price: If you have to ask, you can't afford them Just kidding, I am too lazy to look up the price.

 

While you are at it, you might consider radial mounted brakes. Price:more money.

 

In my opinion Guzzis are not about maximum horsepower, and spending $10,000 to get 10 more HP is a little on the not for everybody side, but there is nothing wrong with improving the ergonomics, the comfort, and the handling. If I spend $5000 doing that, the bike becomes more valuable to me than the new Ducati tax form numbered bike or just about any machine from Japan.

For me a BMW has just about everything I want out of the box for $15,000, but it would leave me less satisfied then a bike buildt out of thousands of forum posts, lots of dreaming, chating at bike meets, a little elbow grease, and lots of ching, but still less ching than the BMW.

I replaced my forks with 26,000 miles on them, so I got some of money's worth out of them, and they are still in my garage in case I need them. Or you can buy my Marzocchis today for $1000 Less than half the price of Ohlins

[Baldini]

...I had sprnt quite q bit of time with the Sport suspension and was satisfied with it. Perhaps by the time I got to the Scura I wasn't prepared to spend the time required to "get it right". There was no hope with the stock springing...

 

For sure the Scura came with too soft springs. Impossible to set up for my weight (200lbs). Stiffer springs made everything different - the bike became usable & the adjustments meaningful (tho the rear has far too much high speed comp damping). It's said the 03 & later bikes have Ohlins much better set up from stock.

 

KB

[Dan M]

I too agree with rachet.

 

I set up my Marz forks with Wilbers springs & 125 cartridge fork fluid. Changed to a Wilbers shock in the rear too. Once everything was dialed in, the bike was transformed. I haven't ridden an Ohlins shod V11 but can't imagine too much more improvement for the extra money. I ride fairly aggressively for an old fart but any improvement from here is probably beyond my ability anyway. That certainly wasn't true with the mushy stock set up & the Bridgestones.

[Guest ratchethack]

Hey, I'm not knocking Ohlins forks! But it seems to me that the V11 is a bit of a Kenworth of a Motorcycle, and Ohlins forks (as well as a whole pile o' popular "go faster" gear) are more of a Lotus Elise kind-of suspension component.

 

Now you can more'n likely shoe-horn an Elise front suspension onto a Kenworth tractor and detect a difference. But in the end, y'er not gonna have a Kenworth that handles like an Elise! Y'er still gonna be muscling a Kenworth around y'er favorite roads!

 

There's a point where the return on investment drops off very quickly. I reckon it's a different curve for every rider, and that the curve looks a lot better on more optimally fore-aft balanced ~400 lb. motorcycle than it looks on a 530 lb Guzzi with a wicked aft weight bias, 20 lb. bevel drive rear hub, shaft, and short swingarm.

 

I'm convinced that more'n a few have made the Ohlins forks upgrade on a Guzzi just for the nice, shiny gold Ti-nitride color.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

For sure the Scura came with too soft springs. Impossible to set up for my weight (200lbs). Stiffer springs made everything different - the bike became usable & the adjustments meaningful (tho the rear has far too much high speed comp damping). It's said the 03 & later bikes have Ohlins much better set up from stock.

 

KB

 

 

We changed the fronts, probably needed rears too. Just didn't seem to be getting close. The FAT, poser tire on the rear of the Scura din't help either.I'm sure for a few more hours fiddling and a few more $$ the Ohlins would have been first rate, for a few thousand miles anyhow. Just didn't care to expend the time and money . I guess I was enjoying the Sport waaaay too much to be bothered with the stab n steer Scura. The seals popping on a 5K schedule were another bother. Sold the Scura, no regrets.

The Marz have been "good enough for a Guzzi", at least my Guzzi.

[dlaing]

I too agree with rachet.

I must have completely missed the snake oil sales pitch.

So, maybe you can explain to me who is pitching the snake oil he is talking about when he said, "Making it "better" is entirely subjective, and many around these parts will recommend vastly different things as universal snake-oil cure-alls that, well, (ahem) IMHO in many cases, aren't quite. dry.gif "

[dlaing]

Rosso Mandello wrote:

Can anyone out there tell me, how a typically set up is for at 100 kg rider who want to have fun in curbs and likes a sporty setup.

And now we are at it, how about the rear suspension.

At 100 kg you will really benefit from respringing.

There are lots of opinions on what the best thing to do is.

Assuming you don't want to spend $4000 on a $6000 bike, start out by respringing.

I don't know for sure as it is a subjective science, but

500 to 575 pounds per inch springs for the shock is about right 550#/in. might be your best bet if you ride sportilly,

and 1.0 to 1.1kg/mm for the forks with 1.1kg/mm being the best bet if you ride sportilly.

Wilbers makes a progressive spring for the front that would work well, and HyperPro makes a progressive spring for the rear that might work well.

Ratchet and I investigated the HyperPro and came to the conclusion that it might be a bit stiff, but for your weight it may be the best solution for a street bike.

[BrianG]

I had Max, at Traxxion Dynamics replace the Maez valves with his units, and re-spring it with 1.10kg springs, then I put on a Penske shock with a 500 lb spring.

Then I set the sag to the proper values.

I happy now, either because it works so much better, or because I spent so much kmoney.... not sure which!

[dlaing]

There's a point where the return on investment drops off very quickly. I reckon it's a different curve for every rider, and that the curve looks a lot better on a 350-400 lb. motorcycle than it looks on a 530 lb Guzzi with a wicked aft weight bias, 20 lb. bevel drive rear hub, shaft, and short swingarm.

So, did that Wilbers shock turn out to be a waste of money?

I doubt it.

Customized to your exact ride height and travel and spring weight and rebound damping and high speed compression damping and low speed compression damping.

Or were you frugal and got the model without compression adjustment?

Those rebound adjustment ones are a pretty good deal if the compression damping is about right.

No resevoir to worry about.

[Guest ratchethack]

So, did that Wilbers shock turn out to be a waste of money?

I doubt it.

Customized to your exact ride height and travel and spring weight and rebound damping and high speed compression damping and low speed compression damping.

Or were you frugal and got the model without compression adjustment?

Those rebound adjustment ones are a pretty good deal if the compression damping is about right.

No resevoir to worry about.

Er, Dave -- this thread is about fork upgrades.

 

Is there some reason you would inquire about my new shock being "a waste of money"???

 

Yes, as a matter of fact, I have lately fully dialed-in my new custom-ordered Wilbers Modell 641 shock with 96 Nm spring and adjustable high and low speed compression damping and adjustable rebound damping (I didn't order adjustable ride height, though it was available). It's been the final piece of my suspension upgrade that started at the weakest link (as noted above) -- upgrading the fork springs. I've posted on this pretty extensively, I'm as happy as a clam with my entire suspension now, and that's all very well and good. But is any of this important here?

 

Do I consider the Wilbers shock the equivalent of "lipstick on a pig"?? To some degree, possibly. The range of upgrade paths were considerably different at the rear than at the front. The starting points with the stock components were likewise quite a bit different (front & rear), and the cost deltas were within hundred$ at the rear, as opposed to thousand$ USD at the front.

 

We're all different, all have different priorities, all got different gear to start with, and thankfully -- we have lots of options.

 

I chose to get 30K miles out of my stock Sachs-Boge shock before upgrading. To each his own.

 

But thanks f'er asking, Dave -- even if y'er just attempting to bust my chops.

[Dan M]

I must have completely missed the snake oil sales pitch.

So, maybe you can explain to me who is pitching the snake oil he is talking about when he said, "Making it "better" is entirely subjective, and many around these parts will recommend vastly different things as universal snake-oil cure-alls that, well, (ahem) IMHO in many cases, aren't quite. dry.gif "

 

 

Snake oil? None of it is Snake oil. Respringing the Marz forks makes a huge improvement in both handling and ride. I didn't try to respring the rear shock, just replaced it with a properly sprung Wilbers unit. Ohlins makes excellent products, not knocking them here. Just offering a less costly alternative that makes a real difference.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

I wondered a bit about the rationale behind spending extra cheese on a Guzzi model to get the "upgrade" forks. When you find as delivered they are little if any better than the plain vanilla. Next the factory rep talks down to you when he expalins how much more money it will cost to dial them in, along with the added maintenance.

For those who are willing to go the extra time and money it's a wonderful thing. To me the returns on the time I spent dialing in the plain vanilla were quite satisfying. Different expectations are a good thing. Everyone has to set their own priorities.

 

Actually I too feel there seems to be a lot more room for improvement at the rear on these machines. Of course those improvements would be less substantial from the visual impact gleaned from gold exotica at the front! I'll bet the ride improvement percentage per dollar is a lot more favorable when invested aft.

[Greg Field]

Yes, in my experience the rear is far more in need of improvement than the front. A properly re-valved and re-sprung Ohlins from a Scura in the rear, then properly adjusted, makes the rear about as good as the front is with sorted Marzocchis. Add sorted Ohlins, and what I found was that the front was again enough better that the rear paled in comparison.