V11 Le Mans Fork Upgrade

[Guest Gary Cheek]

My comments were mostly pertaining to the amount of improvement for the cash and labor outlay. Returns on the investment. Not to mention the shorter rebuild intervals. No real need for Ohlins at the rear on the Sport. The Sport package is pretty easy to set up and works quite well . So far it has also seems quite durable.

The Sport stuff is fine with me. Others swear by the Ohlins. Like Ratchet sez many of them never really put any effort into the Marz forks.

 

The Scura needed something better at the rear than what Guzzi put there as well. No doubt a few more dollars and a few more hours could have dialed that in . The Scura's current owner is in that process right now.

 

 

All a matter of return on investment and what you really want to get for your money. The challenge of improving the stock set up without a large cash outlay has it's own rewards.

The ohlins do have that WOW factor though. It is hard to put a price on that.

[dlaing]

 

Do I consider the Wilbers shock the equivalent of "lipstick on a pig"??

 

But thanks f'er asking, Dave -- even if y'er just attempting to bust my chops.

Just trying to keep you straight and making sure you are not a hypocrite.

Throwing around insults about imaginary snake oil salesmen, and you spend

~$120 on forks, calling people fools for not doing the atleast the same and then you are critical of spending more and getting Ohlins, but then you spend ~$750 on a shock.

Sorry, but I don't get your logic.

And you are the one busting my chops when you say,

"I've seen guys replace their Marz forks with Ohlins without ever having anywhere near a proper match of spring rate to load on the Marz forks, thereby never experiencing what the Marz forks were capable of. To each his own. knownothing.gif "

Atleast you understand the "To each his own" concept.

[Guest ratchethack]

Sorry, but I don't get your logic.

Er, Dave. After what we've seen demonstrated so many times, you're no longer expected to "get" my logic. Frankly, I doubt if anyone here cares if you "get it" or not.

 

I use Earth logic, same as the rest of us on the Blue planet. Your logic was evidently forged in the dark and purply recesses of a toxic atmosphere in a seven-dimension, multi-polarity gravity well matrix on a foreboding planet, far, far away in another galaxy.

 

Earth logic PROOF:

 

Only by other-worldly logic could a personal offense be extracted from what I posted.

 

Despite y'er choice of words above, from y'er behavior, it seems y'er none too sorry about "not getting it", after all -- even though it obviously presents considerable difficulties for you.

[Guest Mattress]

I wondered a bit about the rationale behind spending extra cheese on a Guzzi model to get the "upgrade" forks.

Dude there wasn't much rationale in it for me. A dealer had an unsold 04 Cafe Sport, with a little haggling I got if for the equivalent price of a used 04. Lets say it was cheap. Maybe if he had a Ballabio, I could have saved some coin, but I walked away feeling like I got a great deal. I didn't choose the cafe sport to be a poser, I'm sure the Ballabio can be set up just as equal. However, the extra bling for potential resale value was something I did think of.

 

Anyhow, I got work to do on the Oehlins suspension this winter. I was about 200 - 210 lbs on my last trip, + gear. The fork felt o.k., but the shock was like having someone kick me in the arse.

 

I might find I need a stiffer spring out back, but I'll know more when I set up my sag.

[dlaing]

 

Only by other-worldly logic could a personal offense be extracted from what I posted.

 

It was no less offensive than what I posted.

The only difference is you did not name me in criticism of Ohlins converts.

Meanwhile you are a Wilbers convert.

When talking front suspension ignoring the rear is for fools as the two interact. I thought you knew that.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Dude there wasn't much rationale in it for me. A dealer had an unsold 04 Cafe Sport, with a little haggling I got if for the equivalent price of a used 04. Lets say it was cheap. Maybe if he had a Ballabio, I could have saved some coin, but I walked away feeling like I got a great deal. I didn't choose the cafe sport to be a poser, I'm sure the Ballabio can be set up just as equal. However, the extra bling for potential resale value was something I did think of.

 

Anyhow, I got work to do on the Oehlins suspension this winter. I was about 200 - 210 lbs on my last trip, + gear. The fork felt o.k., but the shock was like having someone kick me in the arse.

 

I might find I need a stiffer spring out back, but I'll know more when I set up my sag.

 

 

In my case I bought the Scura from MGNA after they bought it back from the original owner, needing engine #3. Paid less than $4K for a current model with less than 4000 miles on the odo. Before the bike was delivered I was able to pick up a salvage 2001 Sport for $2500 with 2000 miles showing! The original intent was to use some parts to repair the Scura and sell the rest. The Sport turned out to be an easy electrical fix and a few Ebay parts from running.

Managed to get the 2001 running and sorted before I got real interested in the Scura. I was so happy with the way the Sport felt that my expectations for the Scura may have been a bit unrealistic. I kind of figured at the price charged for the upgrade it should be so close to right on that it would be a snap to sort out. The Sport sure was. The Scura turned out to have a bit less than I hoped in many areas. I blame most of my dislikes on the FAT rear tire and the stretched rake. The Sport was a real joy all the way around.

A combination of having just gone through my 850T and doing a major suspension upgrade on the Cal III and all the engine work on the Scura probably left me a bit uninspired regarding all the work to get the Ohlins in shape. Besides I was very happy with both the 2001 Sport and the sporterized 850T. Wrenching is fun but riding is too. Can't do both at the same time.

I also rode a "set up" Cafe Sport when we were doing the demo rides att the Michigan Rally and found it to be about the same as my Scura. Compounded with a basic preference for the Sports handling ,I pretty much decided at that point not to put much more effort into the Scura

 

When you can have so much fun with a $2500 Sport , spending almost that in hopes of a bit of improvement kind of sway my priorities. I kind of get a kick out of low tech anyhow. My buddy Jim wanted a Sporty Guzzi and offered me a set amount for either/or. I gladly sold him the Scura and kept the Sport. No regrets. Another buddy,Mike now has the Scura along with his old 1993 Duc 900SS and his V7 Sport. Mike loves the Scura , to each his own.......

 

If I ever have another bike with Ohlins fall into my hands I will probably give them a bit more effort. I joke about the poser aspect of the Ohlins but must admit not really giving them a fair effort. Then again I think they should be a lot better out of the box. Perhaps they like selling the tuning bits.

 

Of course in the back of your mind you are weighing "Lessee here $2500 to hopefully improve my suspension or mebbee I can find another $2500 salvage bike.....Hmmmmm?

[dlaing]

Of course in the back of your mind you are weighing "Lessee here $2500 to hopefully improve my suspension or mebbee I can find another $2500 salvage bike.....Hmmmmm?

I wish I was that lucky.

You are probably one of those people who actually wins in Vegas <_>

More power to you

My only saving grace is I don't bet more than I can afford to lose.

With your luck, maybe you will find a pair of Ohlins Forks with leaky seals for $250

But maybe we are all lucky and luck only works well enough to give us what we need and not what we want

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Lucky enough to have the Sport forks give me everything I wanted The '01 Sport turned out to be a wonderful machine

I think the best deal so far was the Convert I found in the trash !

[Guest GUZZI@50]

I have just had Maxton revalve and respring my marz forks of my 2001 Sport. No compression adjustment after mods are done only rebound. Preload adjutment available if you pay a bit more for the adjusters to be fitted.Richard the salesman told me that marz fork seals are very tight to help get over this they smear some special grease on them when reassembling the forks not sure what grease they use.Havent refitted them yet so cant tell what improvement there is yet.

[dlaing]

I have just had Maxton revalve and respring my marz forks of my 2001 Sport. No compression adjustment after mods are done only rebound. Preload adjutment available if you pay a bit more for the adjusters to be fitted.Richard the salesman told me that marz fork seals are very tight to help get over this they smear some special grease on them when reassembling the forks not sure what grease they use.Havent refitted them yet so cant tell what improvement there is yet.

Ohlins recommends:

Regularaly put a little Öhlins red grease (146-01)

regularly on the steel tube and work it in by pushing

the forks up and down.

I suspect those with fork seal failures are not doing this regularly enough.

Also it could have something to do with high oil levels or just luck, like finding Guzzis in the trash

I don't have the Öhlins red grease (146-01) so, I use silicone grease or a little silione spray(sprayed on a rag, to prevent overspray on the brake disks.)

[motoguzznix]

Yes, in my experience the rear is far more in need of improvement than the front. A properly re-valved and re-sprung Ohlins from a Scura in the rear, then properly adjusted, makes the rear about as good as the front is with sorted Marzocchis. Add sorted Ohlins, and what I found was that the front was again enough better that the rear paled in comparison.

I think this will always be the case as the rear of a Guzzi is very heavy because of the rear drive unit. Unsprung masses are in a very bad relation to the rear axle weight compared to a modern chain driven sports bike.

The front can be made as good as any machine using the right components.

I put' in some effort in the Marzocchi fork with sag adjustment, but the results didn't encourage me to go further forward in this direction. The ride height was ok then, but the suspension is not sensible when going over short bumps.

So I bought Öhlins front and rear from HMB, but could not yet afford the time to convert my 2000 V11.

I agree with Gary cheek as the short wheel base V11 is much more fun to ride than the later model, so I hope to get the most out of it with the addition of Öhlins.

[dlaing]

I'll bet the ride improvement percentage per dollar is a lot more favorable when invested aft.

I agree, as forks cost more than twice as much as shocks, but in my opinion the front is more important. To me it was a difficult choice of whether to initially put more money into the front first or the rear first. What decided it for me was the availability of Low mile Ohlins from a trusted source, carbon fender, axle, spacer, and bearings, all for $2000. A savings of well over $500 off of MSRP. And a little less than $500 off of street prices. So, I guess I had some luck

If the deal did not present itself, I probably would have gone a similar route to Ratchet's.

But I would have resprung the rear first, as it was further out of sag.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

I use a mixture of Bel-Ray waterproof grease and Owens Corning Moly-cote Moly dry powder. I am pretty fussy about keeping forks clean. The Ohlins folks insist the 5K seal replacement is normal. It is a trade og they make to get minimum friction, makes sense. Trades offs are a fact of life.

 

I must admit to getting a tip off regarding a bike that "looked like" the one I ride in the trash. I could have taken that the wrong way! I called my son and we drove to the adress and sure enough it was a Tonti Guzzi at the curb on it's side in front of a vacant house. Of course both rotors were locked so we had to dead lift and throw it into the truck. Big, strong young sons come in handy. Keeping him well fed paid off.

 

The bike wound up as a donor cycle at the local Guzzi dealer. Some of the parts may now be in OZ on a certain crumudgeon's Convert.

 

As far as the front VS rear goes, when working with limited resources bang vs buck helps set the priorities. Get the big returns first and the diminishing returns as finance or opportuities allow. Seems logical to me anyhow. If I had actually liked the Scura as well as the Sport it may have swayed me to take a little more effort. In this case selling the bike was easier.

[docc]

Do you guys think the same trade-off is built in to the Ohlins rear shock? ( better performance/shorter rebuild interval)

[dlaing]

Do you guys think the same trade-off is built in to the Ohlins rear shock? ( better performance/shorter rebuild interval)

I must admit, I have been bitten by a fear of failing Ohlins seals.

So much so that I have narrowed down my choice of shock to either Penske or HyperPro.

None of the aftermarket shocks are known for getting cracked eyelets, like the Sachs <_>

For that reason alone, Ratchethack and others are justified to spend money on aftermarket shocks.

The Ohlins is a fine choice, but from what Dr. Know said about his experience with them, it leaves many of us with some doubt. Some have more doubt than others

My most recent research shows:

HyperPro ~$750 with three way dampening adjustability

HyperPro ~$500 with rebound dampening adjustability

 

Wilbers ~$750-800(from memory ) with three way dampening adjustability

(Note wilbersUSA web site posted that prices will go up in January)

 

Penske ~$1050 with three way dampening adjustability

Penske ~$715 with two way dampening adjustability

 

Ohlins ~$880 with two way dampening adjustability

 

I was adamant about having the shock built to Ohlins dimensions.

Penske can do it, but I lose ride height adjustability....which I don't want anyway, because of the limited range of our shock.

Hyperpro can do it, and I am now sure Wilbers can if HyperPro can.

 

From what I have read on the net, HyperPro is no more reliable than Ohlins.

Penske has a great reputation, but the price for the three way dampening adjustability is a bit much for my old sow.

The two way Penske is well priced, but I have fears of excessive high speed compression damping.

So, I don't know what to do.

It will probably boil down to which salesman gets back to me first.

I guess if I follow the logic of most of the majority of the posters in this thread, I should just stay with my Sachs or buy a $500 shock.

But I believe that because the Guzzi has heavy unsprung weight on the rear it needs a great shock, and we should not just roll over and live with the pig like like wallowing and discomfort.