Guest teros1 Posted June 8, 2003 Posted June 8, 2003 After several weekends of tuning, I'm almost there with tuning the Ohlins on my '03 Rosso. First, a generalization: Any "harshness" that you feel on a stock Rosso is most likely due to the suspension being set up too soft! As delivered, the Rosso will bottom out both ends under spiritee riding, especially on less-than-ideal surfaces. My current settings: FRONT - All 3 adjustments "full firm" (results in solid dynamics, minimal brake dive, not too harsh) REAR - Three turns of additional preload [this is key!], compression out 5, rebound out 2 (a bit harsh over sharp bumbs, but taut & controlled) Notes: I weigh 200 lbs. I prefer a bit more rebound damping than most. OVERALL: I would rate the result as "very good," maybe better. Certainly no longer any need for Lindeman magic!
Baldini Posted June 8, 2003 Posted June 8, 2003 Bob, I have 02 Scura/w ohlins. Been struggling to set them up. Don't know if they come from factory same as Rosso. I also have forks at max preload (I am 200lbs) to get sag. I reckon forks need stiffer springs. Damping set to max sounds very stiff for the road - where do you ride? At the rear I added 5 turns to rear spring preload, dropped the comp damping a bit, increased rebound. How many clix off hard (fully closed) are you running the rear comp/rebound? I feel the bike would handle better if it was a bit more nose down. I've gone on about this on an earlier thread... KB, Mid Wales.
Murray Posted June 8, 2003 Posted June 8, 2003 Front springs aren't expensive $100-130USD plus fitting and is probally the best place to spend money on your bike for road riding (should you need them).
Mike Stewart Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 On my 03 Rosso, I ended up cranking up the fork spring preload to full preload, I left the fork dampening set to factory specs., feels fine. On the rear, I had to add more spring preload also, the ride was really harsh. I ended up backing off on the compression dampening two clicks from the stock settings and increasing the rebound dampening by two clicks. Works great now and is only harsh over sharp edged bumps. Mike
Baldini Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 Mike, Sounds like you arrived at the same point I did. What do you reckon to putting in stiffer fork springs - I think it was Murray pointed out that running max preload is only working spring toward the end of it's range. Anybody suggest what rate springs to try? I would guess the next one up but I don't want to start a collection! Cheers, KB.
Guest teros1 Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 I ride in the California Bay Area...pretty rough roads -- both canyons and freeway! My pace is typically pretty quick as well. Latest settings are pretty much what I posted before, except I backed off rear compression to 7 clicks out, rebound 2 out. I'll experiment further with softening damping to where you guys are running. As I said earlier, I prefer more rebound than the average rider.... I would guess that a fork spring in the range 0.9-1.0 KG/CM would be about right. A stiffer shock spring (and reduced high-speed damping) would be nice too! Lowering the front might better balance the suspension, but I'd be concerned that the steering would get nervous (it already is under hard braking and steep downhills). Based on my experience with other bikes, I would suggest trying in small increments. Best, Bob
Baldini Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 Bob, I'd noticed the instability under hard braking - but being pig ignorant I'd not got so far to realise that it was nervous steering that was causing it - I'd just thought - BIG HEAVY BIKE - doesn't want to stop! - But you're right - it's the steering feels very uncertain if you brake hard and hold the brakes into a turn. I like to trail the brakes into a turn. So - what's causing it? It feels reasonably stable in fast sweepers. It doesn't seem to dive too much under braking. I'd never considered geometry as it effects the bike on the brakes only re high speed stability. Perhaps I ought to stop thinking about it - the bike feels good if you work to it's limitations. Only thing is - I have a 1977 Guzzi on skinny tyres that'd run rings round it on a racetrack - surely 25yrs development...
al_roethlisberger Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 Question: Would a 5mm drop in the front suspension make a BIG difference in handling, or not? I hoping "not", and I ask because the Cycle Cat bar risers will probably require that for their installation. al
Murray Posted June 9, 2003 Posted June 9, 2003 Dropping to forks will sharpen the steering withthe conservative geometry of the Guzzi you will probally get away with it, my 1100 sport has been dropped 10mm and the steering dampener removed for a number of years and havn't had any problems. Most decent suspension shops should be able to tell you what wieght springs you have and what you need for your wieght, give them the static sags and tell them what you have done. They rarely get it wrong in they are in doubt they will probally want you and the bike for half an hour to do it for themselves (staic sags that is). I live in a huge state with a realitvly small population (literlally bigger than teaxs by quiet a margin, 2 million people total population) with such a small population the roads are usally fairly empty but they usally pretty average condition well the back roads are anyway we leave the main roads for the Police. Decent suspension setup is worth 20hp on the road well our roads at least and a subject that occupies a lot of time regarding our motorcycles.
Guest teros1 Posted June 10, 2003 Posted June 10, 2003 Some add'l comments: 1. The fact that the bike is tall & heavy definitely contributes to "wobble" under hard braking. If you are at or near the limits of fork travel, that will greatly amplify the sensation. Tire profiles matter too -- Sportec's steer quicker and squirm more than Rennsports. 2. Rosso's geometry (25 deg rake/103 mm trail) is hardly radical, but it's not slow either ('03 Tuono Racing = 25 deg/99 mm trail). Still, a 5mm-10mm drop in the front should not cause any problems. 3. I have had no problems trail-braking into turns...could be tire profile issue? 4. The Race Tech web site has a handy fork spring calculator -- but not for a Guzzi (of course). By interpolating across other models (and from past experience), I believe that a 0.9kg/mm spring would be a good choice for a 200# rider on the street. (My guess is that the stock spring is 0.7-0.75 kg/mm.)
emry Posted June 11, 2003 Posted June 11, 2003 Here is the setting on my 02 Scura. I am thinking about removing 5mm of oil from the front fork though. All adjustments are clicks from fully closed Front: 12 Comp, 13 Rebound, 13 full turn from 0 preload -5mm fork height. Two full lines showing above the triple clamp. This was the change I noticed the most. I ride very heavily on the front wheel and this give me a quicker turn in and helped the front stay planted during acceleration out of turns. It used to try to run wide. Rear: 22 Comp (soft as it gets), 6 Rebound, 5.5" or 140mm installed spring height. Think it is about 2 full turns tighter than stock. I ride two up, 165 and 140lbs each on moderate roads.
Guest roger Posted June 11, 2003 Posted June 11, 2003 Please help! I have an 02 Scura that requires suspension ajustment. I weigh 165# minus gear and I am currently at factory settings. I've tried several different settings and I can get the rear set the way I like it. The front does not inspire confidence in me. If the road is glass smooth it feels great. Anything less and the front "kicks up", weaves and "bounces". As it does this, it will alternate running wide then back in line. Increasing compression or rebound or both seem to have little effect other than making the ride very hard. Any suggestions? Thanks, Roger
Baldini Posted June 11, 2003 Posted June 11, 2003 Bob, Your comments are very helpful. Been thinking, I'm used to 18" wheels - large rolling radius = stability, but slow turn in. The fashion for quick steering brings small wheels = instability. My mate who rides big Japs reckons I've just got to get used to it. I reckon we'd be better off with bigger front wheels! Thanks for your guess on spring rates, think I'll try that. Difference between Sportecs/Rennsports - mileage? Roger, On std settings my Scura was bouncy on bumpy roads. The shop added 8 clix rebound to front, dropped comp 2 clix. Big difference. Next big improvement when I added 3 turns rear preload. This really improved the front - I realised you have to balance front/rear settings - each affects the other. I am 200 lbs. Now on max preload at front , +5 turns on rear. I reckon preload is the key - have you set static sag? Damping can be tweeked either way from std, but I would sugest upping rebound particularly at front and dropping compression at back. Are your tyres worn? Tyre pressures in manual seem very low. These are useful: http://www.guzzitech.com/Suspension-Ed_M.html http://www.guzzitech.com/V11SportWobble-Todd_E.html Emry - Why drop fork oil 5mm? It's reassuring to see you've had no problems raising the forks. Did you notice any more instability on the brakes? Do you have std bars & F/rests? Thanks everyone who has posted on this topic - it has been very useful to me. Cheers, KB, Mid Wales.
Mike Stewart Posted June 12, 2003 Posted June 12, 2003 Roger, You need to check your spring sag first! Ohlins suggest: Front 25-30 mm. without rider Front 35-48 mm. with rider Rear 5-10 mm. without rider Rear 30-40 mm with rider Once this spring preload is obtained, then you can start playing with the dampening adjustments. On my 03 Rosso, I was very disappointed in the way the suspension felt. It basicly did not feel any better than my 00 V11Sport. The rear end felt very harsh (almost needed a kidney belt to ride) and the bike wanted to go wide on rough turns (also wanted to bounce me off of the seat on sharp bumps) . The suspension was not compliant at all and it was hard to tell if it was the front end or the rear that was causing all the problems. I set my spring sag and added rear spring preload till it was within specs. , it felt worse! I added more rebound dampening and there was no difference. Two clicks down in the rear in compression dampening from stock and the bike changed compleatly. Now instead of going wide, the bike soaks up the bumps and stays planted. It is still somewhat harsh at the normal speed limit but is really great once the speed is cranked up. It looks like you are the same weight as Emery, you should try his suspension settings. Good luck, Mike (see you in San Diego)!
emry Posted June 12, 2003 Posted June 12, 2003 My front suspension is very good until the last three forths of travel.And I also don't ever use all of the suspension travel, even under hard braking. by lowering the oil level, it increases hte compliance of the suspension during the end of the stroke.
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