V1100 Bevel box failure

[El_Gringo]

once it was far enough in to expose the thread I turned the nut the correct way up and pushed the bearing fully in by tightening it (while gently heating the case with the heat gun).

Just got to put it on the bike and tighten the pinion nut up against the brake.

I was thinking, how did you tighten up the castle nut? did you buy the tool? If so how much was it? How tight did you go?

 

Cheers

[pasotibbs]

I was thinking, how did you tighten up the castle nut? did you buy the tool? If so how much was it? How tight did you go?

 

Cheers

I didn't have the tool so used two big screw drivers to do it up as tight as possible by hand then tapped it round a little more with one screwdriver and a hammer (not much further than by hand but just to make sure it was truly seated).

When I looked at the bearing before I installed it there was no visible gap between the split race when I pressed it together, so I assume it isn't intended to be adjustable and the nut should be reasonably tight

Now that it is built up there is no play at all in the pinion and it feels smooth in operation but hopefully I'll road test tomorrow and see how it goes.

[pasotibbs]

I didn't have the tool so used two big screw drivers to do it up as tight as possible by hand then tapped it round a little more with one screwdriver and a hammer (not much further than by hand but just to make sure it was truly seated).

When I looked at the bearing before I installed it there was no visible gap between the split race when I pressed it together, so I assume it isn't intended to be adjustable and the nut should be reasonably tight

Now that it is built up there is no play at all in the pinion and it feels smooth in operation but hopefully I'll road test tomorrow and see how it goes.

The bike is now taxed and tested , there are no noises or oil leaks so it looks like the bevel box is fixed.

[rossoandy]

The bike is now taxed and tested , there are no noises or oil leaks so it looks like the bevel box is fixed.

KOOOOOOOL! well done on road b4 mine too!

I got my new u/js for driveshaft and hoping to press emm in tomorrow at work. If all goes well may be able to fit gbox seal and start reassembling Sunday! hoo rah!

[pasotibbs]

The bike is now taxed and tested , there are no noises or oil leaks so it looks like the bevel box is fixed.

After 170 miles (town work,four junctions of motorway and some fast A roads the pinion had developed a tiny amount of play, I got the box off the bike and adjusted the play out with a couple of light taps to tighten the castleated nut.

I'll keep an eye on this and adjust again if required.

[pete roper]

After 170 miles (town work,four junctions of motorway and some fast A roads the pinion had developed a tiny amount of play, I got the box off the bike and adjusted the play out with a couple of light taps to tighten the castleated nut.

I'll keep an eye on this and adjust again if required.

 

I've noticed a lot of V11's seem to have this end float in the queer 2 part bearing. I put it down to it settling in service . Oddly enough a similar amount of end float in an earlier bevelbox would almost certainly of led to the demise of the gears. On V11's it seems to make little or no difference, (Although it could be one of the reasons the outrigger bearing on the end of the pinion tends to sh!t itself?).All I can put this down to is the fact that the size and angle of the teeth is much greater on V11, (And CARC equipped boxes.) than it is on the earlier ones so the point of contact can wander a bit without the pinion excavating the base of the crownwheel teeth. Just a guess there though???

 

Pete

[rossoandy]

I've noticed a lot of V11's seem to have this end float in the queer 2 part bearing. I put it down to it settling in service . Oddly enough a similar amount of end float in an earlier bevelbox would almost certainly of led to the demise of the gears. On V11's it seems to make little or no difference, (Although it could be one of the reasons the outrigger bearing on the end of the pinion tends to sh!t itself?).All I can put this down to is the fact that the size and angle of the teeth is much greater on V11, (And CARC equipped boxes.) than it is on the earlier ones so the point of contact can wander a bit without the pinion excavating the base of the crownwheel teeth. Just a guess there though???

 

Pete

Wonder if its cause we can't tighten the castle/pinion nut as tightly as at the factory Pete?

[El_Gringo]

I got my new u/js for driveshaft and hoping to press emm in tomorrow at work.

How did you get on with the UJ's. I am looking to get a pair myself, but Jack at BRT was not sure if there were OK.

Cheers

[rossoandy]

How did you get on with the UJ's. I am looking to get a pair myself, but Jack at BRT was not sure if there were OK.

Cheers

Like to say fine but....

I struggled to remove the old uj from the gbox end which was showing signs of possible failure. The design of the yokes the joint cups sit in does not allow you to push from one side the cross and other cup out.

I found the cup would only protrude about a mill or so which wasnt enough to get a grip with the vice jaws and so twist/pull the cup right out. So I had to resort to holding the shaft in one hand at around 45' angle whilst tapping (hard) the top of the yoke next to the cup,this jars the cup upwards and outwards so it can be gripped and removed. However, be warned the shaft itself is a hollow tube and dents VERY easily should you miss your aim! The yoke itself shows a few bruises but nothing to worry about. Once I had removed all the cups I fitted the new ones and pressed it all together in the vice,replacing the circlips with new.

Howeve, the joint still had a tight in one spot and not being happy I removed it and carefully filed/emery clothed the interior of the yokes where the cups sit before pressing in another new joint.

This time it was perfect! I could see upon closer inspection a perfectly straight line in one of the bearing surfaces on the new x piece from the first u/j,I suspect it was faulty as I could not imagine how I could have caused such a mark upon assembly.

So...I have one new u/j fittd to the front end of the shaft and thats how its gonna stay as the rear one is easily greased and is showing no sign of wear.

IF IT AINT BROKE...DONT FIX IT!

 

So to finish..the joints jack supplies fit fine,just carefully inspect before you fit!

[El_Gringo]

Well yipee do, I'm back on two wheels.

The bevel box is back together and seems to be oil tight. I got all the bearings from Jack at BRT and all seems to be OK - no funny noises I had to grind the nut off of the bevel drive the same as everyone else. I greased the UJ's until they made a poping noise and black goo came out. They felt alot smoother after a good greasing. I have read conflicting report on how to grease the UJ's so I'm sure I will find out soon enough if I've damaged the seals!

Thanks to all for help and assistance

Cheers

[rossoandy]

Well yipee do, I'm back on two wheels.

The bevel box is back together and seems to be oil tight. I got all the bearings from Jack at BRT and all seems to be OK - no funny noises I had to grind the nut off of the bevel drive the same as everyone else. I greased the UJ's until they made a poping noise and black goo came out. They felt alot smoother after a good greasing. I have read conflicting report on how to grease the UJ's so I'm sure I will find out soon enough if I've damaged the seals!

Thanks to all for help and assistance

Cheers

wwell done!! join the club of bevel box specialists!!

[Guest penat]

Hi all. Has anyone else had a bevel box failure on V1100? Mine developed play in the pinion bearing which I only found when giving the bike a check over.I was feeling for any play in the drive u/j's when I detected lift in the bevel box inut shaft. I drained the oil from it to find a silvery sheen to it..OH NO!!! BAD NEWS !!

The box was removed from the bike and I removed the cover plate (tight fit this). I could see no major failure at this time but decided to strip the whole lot out.

The unit is assembled at the factory with little thought of how it might come apart at a future date with many bearings being fitted into blind holes in the alloy casings. These bearings are needle roller with outer races the thickness of a piece of tin! The pinion itself is mounted on a huge specialist bearing,part ball and part roller bearing,guess this to take axial and radial loadings. (thrust effect of pinion). This bearing is very tightly held by a large castle nut and is VERY tight. I managed to undo mine by a few sharp taps with a large punch and then unscrewed it all the way with a tool I made up. The pinion bearing still needs to be pulled from the housing with a slide hammer srewed into the thread in the end of the shaft. Once out I found that the problem was failure of the small inner support bearing for the pinion. It had prettty well totally disintergrated leaving the inner race badly worn on the pinion and the remains of the outer track in the housing. This inner bearing is held in place by a retaining plate held with two x head screws. Removal of the remains of this bearing was a problem due to its small size,situation and in a blind hole. I warmed the case,freeeze sprayed the bearing and managed eventually to get it out.The inner race was easier,I simply ground through the remains being carefull not to damage the shaft. All the bearings in the box had suffered the effects of contamination from metal particules and so were all changed. I was lucky in that I had access to a press which helped remove some of the bearings.

I would like to say that ALL the bearings are available from bearing factors at hugely reduced prices to those quoted by GUZZI dealers even the special pinion bearing. (FAG bearings mostly)

I was disapointed to also find the pinion/crownwheel tooth contact was never right from the factory and having ran for over 18k miles its too late to realign it now as there is significant wear showing on the contact points.

So everyone be aware...the bevel box is not the bulletproof component I believed it to be, check yours for play and fix before it blows completly...

Oh,remember to try and undo pinion nut whilst box still on bike, its very tight and I could'nt get mine undone when box was part stripped on bench! I had to cut it off...still prob good to replace lock nut anyway.

Finally I would like to recomend Jack at BRT bearings Ashford Kent for all his help in competitively sourcing the bearings,if anyone wants his no I happy to pass on.He has kept a list of all brgs/seals req to do the job. I woulda posted his no but not sure its allowed on here?

Got several pics of this but cant seem to get em to post...file size 480k per pic ok?

 

 

 

 

please do im having a hard time finding the gear neddel bearing